The Unspoken Truths of Motherhood with Sarah Hoover

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Today, Jess sits down with Sarah to talk about the abrupt whiplash of parenthood—from the identity crisis, the rage, the silence, and the slow process to recovery. Sarah’s book The Mother Load has been resonating with women across the country, because it tells the truth so many are scared to say out loud.

JESS & SARAH TALK ABOUT:

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ABOUT OUR GUEST

Best Selling Author, Art Historian, and Cultural Critic with Sarah Hoover

Sarah Hoover is a writer, art historian, and advocate for maternal mental health. She is the bestselling author of The Mother Load, which explores her experience with postpartum depression, identity loss, and the emotional complexities of early motherhood.

Before becoming an author, Sarah built a successful career in the contemporary art world, serving as a director at the prestigious Gagosian Gallery for over a decade. Her work has been featured in outlets including The Today Show, Morning Joe, Vogue, and The Wall Street Journal, and she is a sought-after speaker on topics such as feminism, motherhood, and mental health.

Through her writing and public advocacy, Sarah is passionate about dismantling the myths of “having it all” and encouraging women to tell their truths, no matter how imperfect they may seem. She lives in New York City with her husband and two children.

RESOURCES & LINKS

The Mother Load by Sarah Hoover

Watch Sarah on the Today Show

Amplify with Jess is produced by Walk West and brought to you by Mic Drop Workshop.

TRANSCRIPT

Sarah Hoover:

This depression had the ability, had the potential to absolutely ruin my life. I remember sitting at this table that I’m sitting at right now and looking out the window and thinking, how can I get away from this life? I’m so frustrated with how things have turned out for me, despite all of my best intentions.

I don’t wanna be in this life anymore. And. that could have been the end of my story. You know,

Jess Ekstrom:

welcome to Amplify with Jess Ekstrom. If you’re ready to amplify your ideas, your influence, and your income, then you’re in the right place. Do you ever feel you’re supposed to have it all together? As a mom, as a professional, as a human, and deep down, you know, it’s just total bs, but you still carry the pressure.

Anyway, today’s guest is Sarah Hoover, bestselling author of the Mother Load, a raw, honest, and at times rage filled exploration of Postpartum depression, identity loss. And the invisible weight so many women carry, especially after having a child. You might have seen Sarah on the Today Show, morning Joe or Vogue, but her story didn’t start in front of cameras.

It started in silence during what she describes as the darkest year of her life. In this episode, we talk about what happens when motherhood doesn’t feel magical. Why having it all is a myth that’s crushing so many women, how her identity was shattered and reshaped, and why telling the truth out loud is sometimes the most radical thing we can do.

So let’s start at the beginning when Sarah’s son was placed on her chest for the first time. Instead of joy, she felt nothing.

Sarah:

I felt nothing I just felt dead inside. And I had been really looking forward to that moment of meeting the baby because I thought it would be this ecstatic explosion of [00:02:00] maternal instincts and love for him.

And I remember just feeling none of that and being I don’t want anything bad to happen to him. Of course, he’s a tiny baby, but I’m not madly in love with him. I’m not even curious. I don’t feel any joy right now. And the thought of having to take care of his every need felt incredibly oppressive.

And I remember just being I just wanna go back to my life before this. I wanna go back to work. I want my body to feel normal. I wanna feel capable and strong. And I could fall back into the life that I had spent, you know, 15 years building for myself and. The realization that I couldn’t go back and that I was stuck in this new reality was heartbreaking to me.

I had a massive identity crisis. It felt a huge rupture, and I, it just caused this really prolonged and really deep depression that I didn’t have the words to explain at the time. And a lot of it manifested in rage.

And I just remember being so mad at my doctor and my husband and my mom and the whole world that didn’t seem to accept this narrative that motherhood wasn’t fun for me and that I didn’t feel connected to it or to my child when I finally got my shit together a year later and started coming out of it through an immense amount of therapy and meds and.

Journaling and a million things. I didn’t know that I would ever write about it. You know, I didn’t know that story would become a cause for my, a reason for being. It took a few more years before I decided to turn the experience into a book, but it was a very hard journey. It impacted my marriage.

It impacted, you know, impacted how I, how I did my job, how I related to my friends, the ripple effect of that. Depression was massive and really life changing. So.

Jess:

And clearly it is striking a chord with so many women. I mean, you have been everywhere. I feel every time I turn my TV on, you’re on it.

Sarah:

Good. Then all the hard work is working, I guess.

Jess:

Yes. And I know that is not on accident. I know what it takes to launch a book and get in front of people from Morning Joe. Today’s show, Vogue, wall Street Journal. You just told me right before this, you’re what? What’s the festival that you’re going to?

Sarah:

The LA Times. book festival, which is at the end of April. I mean, it’s been such a heavy lift, but the thing is, it’s not for my own glory. I mean, honestly, I don’t really the public facing stuff, but this feels so urgent to me.

Jess:

Mm-hmm.

Sarah:

I, this depression had the ability, had the potential to absolutely ruin my life.

I remember sitting at this table that I’m sitting at right now and looking out the window and thinking, how can I get away from this life? I’m so. Frustrated with how things have turned out for me, despite [00: 05:00] all of my best intentions, I don’t wanna be in this life anymore. Mm-hmm. And that could have been the end of my story, you know?

And to think that had I just had one friend, one maternal figure, one book that I had read that spoke to me at all and made me understand that this was that, that, that those feelings were a symptom of an actual disease that was treatable. My, I would’ve, I lost a year of my life, right?

Mm-hmm. So I feel very urgently and very, this, this cause feels incredibly important to me. I want women to feel seen. And I’ve been on this book tour now for. About a month or six weeks, and on mass, I’m meeting women who have felt destroyed by how their birth stories, their pregnancy stories, their stories of loss, their stories of not connecting to motherhood or not connecting to parts of motherhood, how they felt incredibly unseen and underappreciated for the work that they’ve done and the sacrifices that they’ve [00: 06:00] made.

And how they’re all just really upset about it. They’re rage filled, they’re sad, and they don’t feel seen by our society and I think we should all be rioting in the streets. Right? So it all of that. Press and all of that work that I’ve put into getting my book to be visible is because I don’t want anyone to feel the way I felt in that year.

I want them to know there’s light at the end of the tunnel and that there’s a way out. And that those feelings, I always say, postpartum depression is a rational response to a really insane thing that happens to you. And I want women to feel seen that way. You know? So it’s, I’ve been putting so much effort into getting the book out into the world that I’m glad to hear that it’s working.

’cause I feel a little bit in a vacuum. I, I don’t totally know, you know, I, my. My, the people that I interact with self-select, they’ve all chosen to come to a public speaking events or whatever. So I’m not sure how out in the world how visible the book has been. So it’s good to hear that it’s working.

Jess:

Yeah. And it is definitely working and I think that I felt that rage too, of why did no one tell me? And maybe they did and I just wasn’t ready to listen because in my mind you had the. preconceived notion that motherhood will be this magical experience. Right. And I had the same thing where they laid Ellie on my chest, who is now two in my ride or die.

And I was where’s the moment? You know, where’s the, the overwhelming feeling of my life being better. I knew that my life was changed, but I thought it was gonna inherently make my life better. And I felt the opposite. And I wanna talk about that with. The tug of war between motherhood and your professional identity because you have had not only a career as an author, but a career in the arts industry in so many things.

And, I felt the thing that the things that I based my identity on before I had kids was my work, you know, my success at work, my body, my productivity, my relationships. My ability to be spontaneous and travel. And so all of a sudden, the foundation of who I, how I based, how well I was doing motherhood threatened every single one of those things.

And so all the ways that I felt I made myself whole, I was now having to rebuild. What was the identity shift for you that happened in postpartum, but then also now through writing your book and what you’re doing? Today.

Sarah:

Yeah, I had always really, my career had been really important to me and, I worked in an art gallery for a long time in the same gallery since I was in graduate school.

And it was the most massive part of my identity. I worked all day long, all night long. I traveled a ton. of course I couldn’t go right back to that. And I remember, and I write about this in my book, my husband going back to work soon after we came [00: 09:00] home from the hospital. And me being so jealous because I wanted to go back to work, you know?

And I couldn’t go back right away. But then I eventually did. I mean, the reality is to have it all, whatever that means for you, you need a lot of money. you have to be able, if you don’t have family close by, you have to be able to pay a lot of people to help you have it all. And a hundred percent.

And we have to talk about that because that’s. The reality, and it’s not going to get any better for women with this government making decisions about women’s bodies and women’s health the way they are. So mm-hmm The reality is to have it all, you have to have a lot of money if you don’t have a lot of family and that kind of support close by.

I was starting off-ish in my career, you know, I was 30, I was working really, really hard. luckily my husband was, we had devoted a. We had decided before the baby came that we were gonna devote resources to having help at home so that I could go [00: 10:00] back to work as soon as I could. And in New York City, we live in a place where that’s really common.

you know, I grew up in Indiana and I think most kids went to daycare and stuff that, but there wasn’t a real nanny culture where I grew up. We had made, we had talked about it and made a decision. This is in my book about the kind of health that we were gonna have at home because my husband knew it was really important to my sense of self to be able to go back to work.

But there is this time, I just had a second too. I’m a couple months ahead of you. I was 10 month old and I had a much happier birth this time and a much different newborn experience, and I feel much more attached and connected to my baby. I’m obsessed with her and it’s a different set of issues now because.

Though I have plenty of help, and I’m really fortunate in that I, I also don’t want to leave her this time. Mm-hmm. before I was running out the door, I wanted nothing to do without baby. This time I feel so strongly that I’m doing something I’m so passionate about and that I love so much.

And it’s absolutely incompatible with mothering to have that kind of passion outside of your home. And I see, you know, legislators who bring their newborns. To the floor and our nursing while they’re signing bills. And I’m yeah, that’s badass and it’s rad, but God, it should not have to be that way.

It shouldn’t have to be that way. Yeah. You as are a human being, you deserve to have both. You deserve to have your own identity and also to be a mother, and it’s just, there is no winning. It’s just so hard. And so with that in mind, with the fact that there is no winning in mind, I’m well, men and people who don’t have children.

Have to be more empathetic to our stories, they have to understand more what that pole is They were all babies once too. They got here because a mother sacrificed something to make sure that they could grow up to be thriving individuals. Right? And we deserve respect and acknowledgement for that work and that sacrifice.

And I don’t think it’s possible, especially for men to have empathy for working women, for women in general because they never read our stories. that’s another reason I wrote this book, when I was in high school. I can tell you the very few women’s stories I read, but I mostly read The Iliad, you know.

And that’s another reason that I felt to compel write this book. I was I want there to be stories out there that men literally can’t ignore that, spell out for them what it’s to be a woman grappling with identity and in motherhood because they have to know so that they can make better decisions on their, on our halves when they’re in the position to do so.

Right. It’s almost not their fault. There haven’t, if you and I couldn’t find stories about what it’s postpartum, then how could any dude.

Jess:

Do that. Yeah. And it’s actually reminds me of something that your mother told me. who is, how we originally got connected? who, Martha, your mother will also be on this show.

She said that it, she knew that you and your sister would be feminists, but it was more important for your brother and your dad to be feminists because. Having, raising men who are feminists, who know what women are going through, or at least can have the empathy for it, is the uphill battle is the challenge.

Sarah:

You’re fighting for every step of the way, you know, every step of the way.

Jess:

What in your opinion? And I, I’m thinking about this for myself too. What can we do? How can men or workplaces, what can we do to help them see this? Get it and see? Yeah.

Sarah:

Yeah. Okay. My answer to everything, which you know, because you’ve read my book, is truth.

you just have to tell your truth. You. Men have to be confronted with endless versions of women’s truths. women have been so conditioned culturally to be polite and quiet. we don’t tell our stories enough, we’re not loud enough about them. And half the time they’re filled with shame, you know?

And I think if we just, if we were all really loud all the time, men would not be able to ignore. These truths are fairly universal. I’ve now met hundreds and hundreds of women whose stories are not identical to mine, of course, because we are all unique people. But the feelings that I thought I was so alone in, in that year and AF even after it turns out that thousands of people feel the exact same way as I do.

You know? And I only started realizing that once. I was this is really embarrassing. I’m just gonna start talking. Really, I’m just gonna start saying this stuff out loud and see if anyone else agrees. Maybe I’ll make one friend and I’ve now met hundreds of hundreds of people. I would, you know, consider colleagues on this journey.

So I just think not being [00: 15:00] afraid, not being ashamed to say your truth. It’s the greatest connector and it’s in one of the ammunition against a, a, a male hegemony.

Jess: One of the other things that I really loved that you acknowledged, and that’s something that I care deeply about, is I can ha I can come from privilege and but also have this struggle, and I can recognize that too because as you say in your book, postpartum doesn’t discriminate.

It’s, it’s. All across the board, but I love that you also recognize that if you wanna have it all, you have to pay for it. People have been asking me how are you doing it right now? Two under two, you’re still speaking and doing all these things. It’s I have help, I have family that lives close by.

I pay for more help. And yet this is still the hardest thing that I’ve ever done.

Sarah:

I mean, that was kind of my point, right? I didn’t wanna hide my own circumstances because mm-hmm. I believe in [00:16:00] truth, as I’ve just said. But also my point is that if it’s hard for someone me, then it’s gotta be equally, or if not way more hard for everybody else.

And I know how devastating the experience was for me. I know how it, I literally wanted to die for a year. I thought about ending my own life, so if, and, and yet I had everything, you know? Mm-hmm. And. Of course, I’m so glad that I had everything and I feel so lucky. I’m not, I don’t think it’s a good thing that to be able to do it all, you have to be able to pay for it.

That’s not, those aren’t circumstances. I’m okay with, I wish the world were different. Totally. You know, I don’t advocate for it to stay this way, but that is just the reality of what the reality right now, you know, there isn’t, I don’t know about where you live, but I think that. The state should subsidize, pre-K universally and daycare and.

There are, you know, so many actionable things that I think our government could do to make the world better for women and children, of course. but I wanted to write a story where people could say, and also by the way, there were people who told me to make my book fiction. Mm. people maybe wouldn’t wanna hear a story from someone who has as much resources as I have, which I understand, but I was

I, I didn’t wanna do that because I didn’t want anyone to read my story and ever be able to say oh, she hyperbolized this, she exaggerated, or she made this up. I want people to know that, yeah, I have so much stuff that I’m really lucky to have that no part of me deserves more than anybody else.

And yet. This transition to motherhood was devastating and difficult, and it sets women up for failure to have the expectation be that it’s Disney and magic because it wasn’t for me.

Jess:

Where does your, how do you feel your, where your identity has landed today? Of course, it’s ever evolving, but you are now a hugely successful author. and you’re also, well, I feel

Sarah:

all day, every day. I, I’ve never, I don’t feel successful and I don’t know what the metric is that would make me feel successful. I don’t know, but I, I feel I’m always dropping all the balls. That’s been heavy. I kind of think that before my book came out, I was once my book is out, I’m gonna have some time to really step back and take a look at all this and spend, you know, a bunch of hours every day with my baby.

And that hasn’t been my reality and I still don’t feel it’s, maybe it’s my imposter syndrome. Maybe this is the burden of being a woman too. I don’t know that I’ll ever feel. Really successful. I don’t know even what that means, Yeah, for me, the best success is to feel respected by other women who I admire, creatives and intellectuals who I admire [00: 19:00] because there is no metric, there’s no bestseller list or whatever that it’s gonna make me feel really good about myself.

My identity right now is promoting this book whose message I fundamentally really believe in, and I want it to be my life’s work for right now. Being a mom to these two kids and trying to do everything I can to make a world for them that I think they deserve to live in. I’m trying to create a world where people are good and kind and treat each other the way they wanna be treated and are committed to things that seldom with passion and I’m trying to create that bubble for them.

Yeah. But. My identity. I feel it changes every day. Yeah. I don’t know if I’ll be, I don’t know if I’ll write another book. I don’t know if I’ll ever have creative time or space. I mean, I started this during Covid. It ha gave me a lot of creative time and space, you know? Yeah. I don’t know if I’ll be able to do that again.

I’m loving meeting tons of women, so hopefully I can do, something where I am public facing and get to continue to meet people. I find that really inspiring. And keep talking about these topics, but also, I don’t wanna be defined by the one year I had postpartum depression for forever. So I will not evolve too.

And another thing that does feel part of privilege is getting to change your identity and who you are over and over and get to evolve. I don’t think that everybody has the. Creative energy and the time to do that in their lives, you know? So that also feels really lucky. And again, something I wouldn’t be able to do if I didn’t have an immense amount of help taking care of my kids.

Also for my partner, you know, I have a really supportive partner who works two blocks from our house and is can do anything for me during the day if I needed to him too. It’s also complex, I mean. I don’t know what it looks to be a really successful woman who’s just content and happy in her life.

I feel I, I feel so much pressure to always do more. [00: 21:00]

Jess:

That’s literally the thing that I. Writing my next book on is really? What does that look ? the working title I have is making it without losing it. It’s how can, can we have ambition and fulfillment at the same time?

And what does that look for all of us? Because Shonda Rhimes, she did this graduation talk that was, She said it was switching these levers of every time I’m succeeding at work, I feel I’m falling short at home every time I’m right. I feel I’m present at home. I’m falling short at work.

And, but I think that there’s also something to be said because I was, I feel that all the time. I hate getting on the plane and I hate that my daughter now sees a suitcase and knows that it means something. I also love, this morning I wasn’t on today’s show, but I was on the local news for this women’s history thing I’m doing and my, I saw my daughter see the TV screen and say that’s mama and.

It was oh, I made this decision even before she was born and I made it with my husband that I want my daughter and my kids to see me trying. I don’t need them to see me succeeding. I need them to see me trying.

Sarah:

Well, I write about this in my book. The truth is as a woman, you deserve to have your own identity.

That yes, being a mom and as a kid, I saw that in my mom. I what? She didn’t explain it right. Which I, she’s read my book obviously, and we talk about this a lot. my mom didn’t have the tools to communicate to me mommy’s leaving the house to go to work for so many reasons, and none of them are because I don’t love you.

what, when I saw her with her own ambitions and her own identity and her own stuff going on, and I saw her leaving the house, I interpreted that as an ambivalence towards motherhood and as me as her child being a burden and something that got in the way of her. Being really fulfilled, that messed me up.

But I think with the right communication to your kids, it benefits them to know that you as a woman are worth and deserve developing your own identity outside of them and that they will be worth and will deserve that too in their own lives. Right.

Jess:

Yeah. And it’s almost, I had a, an opposite experience where my mom was all in mm-hmm.

On my, and I loved, loved that. but I also felt that was my playbook. And I’ve talked to her about this. My playbook was once I become a mom, that is me, you know? And that is, that’s it. And she was the substitute teacher at my school, the PTA president, the doing everything, which I. Again, loved, [00: 24:00] but I felt such conflicting, things.

’cause I was when I became a mom, I was I don’t feel I want to do that. yeah. I feel I, yeah, I think there are some women whom that’s totally natural, right?

Sarah:

Yeah. Or who that is their joy and that’s their most fulfilled, that was never gonna fulfill me. That wasn’t my passion in life.

That’s not what I’m born to do. And I don’t think women should feel badly because they also want an identity outside of that. I don’t think that makes a bad mom or bad at being a girl. I think that just makes you different. There are total for whom having babies and being a mother is their absolute destiny and they’re incredible at it.

I’m jealous of those women. I wish I had felt that when my son was born, but just my reality is that I don’t. And that it doesn’t make me feel good about myself. And I think just as a human, I deserve to do the things that make me feel good about myself. I don’t wanna feel I’m punished for that because it makes me a bad mom under someone else’s definition.

Right.

Jess:

I wanna end with one of the quotes from your book. I’m gonna even put it up here, that I just loved so much. Once you own your story, your shame, your insecurities, you won’t have a problem naming them, and that takes away the power of anyone who wants to use them against you. I. Total mic drop. I love it.

Everyone go by the mother load. Anywhere books are sold. Sarah, anything else you wanna leave, with our audience today?

Sarah: I don’t, I will say I narrated that book myself, so if you’re an audio booth friction and you don’t hate the sound of my voice, I tried really hard on that and it was really fun. So you can totally do the audio book and get a.

Whole experience there.

Jess:

Did you have I felt narrating my audiobook was a religious experience for me. Was that Oh, for you

Sarah:

during it? Same. Yeah. I was so emotional. It was very special for me. I feel really lucky I got to do it, so

Jess:

I felt the same way. I, so, yeah. Grab the [00:26:00] audiobook. Sarah Hoover, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you everyone. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks everybody. Bye.

Thanks for listening to Amplify. If you’re a fan of the show, show us some podcast love by giving us a rating and review. This episode is brought to you by Mic Drop Workshop, where you can learn how to become a better speaker, how to land paid speaking gigs, and become a keynote speaker. This episode was edited and produced by Walk West.

I’m Jess Ekstrom reminding you that you deserve the biggest. Stage. So let’s find out how to get you there. I’ll see you again soon.

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