Transcript

Hazel Sy: [00:00:00] We don't even have a dining table in the kitchen anymore. And instead we have a kitty table and all of us sit around the kitty table love, like in these tiny chairs. Love that. So when they're a little bit older, we'll pull our old table back, but at least it gives them, it, it, they're equals to us. Um, yes.

They're not in a high chair where they can't get out. 

Jess Ekstrom: Welcome back to Amplify with the Jess Ekstrom, where we amplify your ideas, your influence, and your income. It is a rainy, gloomy day here in Raleigh, but we are about to bring the sunshine with our guest. Hazel Sy. We found Hazel because a woman on our team, a new mom, stumbled across Hazel's Ted Talk and it spoke to every doubt, fear, and concern she had about being a working parent.

Not only are we a super fan of Hazel in her talk, but she is also now an alumni of Mic Drop Academy. Hazel is a Fortune 500 executive, a board member, and a [00:01:00] powerful advocate for working parents. She has lived the experience. Many of us know. The tug of war between being a devoted parent and a committed professional.

In this conversation, we're gonna talk about how she pushed through the guilt of being a working mom, the emotional journey of creating a powerful TED Talk, and the surprising ways that motherhood has changed her as a leader and a speaker. So let's start at the beginning of her story. When Hazel's plan for childcare fell through a time I know all too well and she was forced to find another way.

Hazel Sy: We had a plan, right? Initially my, um, in-laws were going to move closer to us, so they were gonna move all the way from Long Island over to New Jersey in order to live close to us to help watch the kids. And it all happened in such a whirlwind because when the time came, uh, my, my, my in-laws are quite, they're, they're older.

And so my mother-in-law took me aside and said, you know, uh, we're kind of old now [00:02:00] and it's really hard to keep up with two twins, like two kids running around at the same time. And so we don't think we can do this. And here I was about to go back to work. I had maybe four to five, you know, four, four to six weeks or so to figure out an alternative, like finding a daycare.

Wow, what am I gonna do? Who even has an opening right now? Um, so that there was a huge shock to me in the moment. Um, and that kind of started the whole process, right? Uh, but the, the one thing that I found and why I felt compelled to, to do the talk was because, um. I would al, similar to what you said about talking to Jane, I always had these thoughts in my mind.

How do I juggle both work and um, a career that I was always 150% into it with kids feeling the guilt of leaving them at home or putting them in daycare. Um, and honestly I kept asking myself, should I quit? Mm-hmm. And I find it's a question [00:03:00] that many of us ask ourselves and then I realized I was using up so much energy.

And brain power and this energy that could be going elsewhere. Always revisiting this question and questioning myself if I was doing the right thing. 

Jess Ekstrom: Yeah. And what I guess was there, like, okay, so you eventually did find a daycare. Mm-hmm. I did. What was the entry like for you? Because it didn't go if, if anything.

Magnified. When Ellie started going to daycare, I felt, 'cause especially 'cause they're kids and they have a tough adjustment. I would cry, sit in my car and cry every day when I put her in there and I'm like, is what I'm doing worth it again? Should I quit? Um, what was it like for you, that adjustment? When that started?

Hazel Sy: So I think initially it was a bit hard, um, where. I was figuring out the first, [00:04:00] the hours even. Right. So I used to be able to come home at any time, 8:00 PM even 9:00 PM whenever needed. Uh, because there was nothing waiting for me or nothing I had to like go do. Mm-hmm. And when they were in daycare, literally there was one time I remember I had to call my sister.

I'm like, could you please pick the kids up from daycare? She didn't have car seats, so she had to just sit in her car waiting with them until I got there. Like 30 minutes later. Yeah, because they were gonna close, right? And daycare tells you, okay, if you don't pick up this many minutes after the pickup time, we're going to call child support.

So they made sure the parents actually came. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So stressful. That's a, that's a 

Jess Ekstrom: bold, uh, threat. It worked though. It worked. Yes, yes. So, you know, you had a really interesting stat in your TED talk, and you can probably say it better than me, but, um, childcare, the cost of it is like working minimum wage full [00:05:00] time from January to June.

Yeah. Was that, am I saying that right? 

Hazel Sy: Yes. And it's, um, insane it, and that's even before the childcare cliff. So one of the reasons why I started questioning like, oh no, am I doing the right thing to giving this talk was here I was advocating to put kids in childcare, which is controversial enough as it is.

In terms of being judged as a mom. Mm-hmm. But then the childcare cliff was happening where a lot of the government support that supplemented childcare costs was going away. It was happening right about like within a few month period. And so it's really hard where a lot of people, I know that's another thing we talk about is, is it worth staying to work?

Yeah. Um, and maybe we should quit if all of our income or a significant portion of income is going towards childcare. And I think that was really key though, because part of what gave me this, this aha [00:06:00] moment that I wanted to share with the world. Um, and something that gave me the sense of peace ultimately was I was having a conversation one afternoon with my friend and we were talking about things like this.

Like, wow, it's you, you know, like we're very lucky. We're not working at minimum wage, but it was eating up a good chunk of our take home pay. And, and in the conversation though, we talked about how in the few years that she did continue working, um, 'cause her child was still quite young, like four, I think.

Um, that. She had actually moved up in her career and moved to the next level mm-hmm. While doing all this. And so one of the things we talked about was, yes, even maybe today it's, it's costing us quite a large portion of our income, but by continuing to work, we're continuing to move up in our career and in a way it's a financial investment back into ourselves that will move up in our career and make more money later on.

Jess Ekstrom: But it's an investment financially. [00:07:00] Mm-hmm. You also called it preserving your sense of self. Yeah. Which I think is probably not talked about enough. Like yes, there's definitely a financial upside to working, but also there's a personal upside if, if you choose that. Can you talk about what the, um, personal side of that investment looks like and, 'cause usually we don't talk about the payoff there.

Hazel Sy: And I think it's because we don't really talk a lot as a culture about self-identity, um, and how we think of a lot of times in the Western world when we think of identity, our identity wrapped up in our career. Many times if you go to a party and let's say you're not working and people ask you what do you do, you feel really awkward, right?

Like mm-hmm. I don't know what to say because that's, my identity is so tied up in that. And, um. Throughout my, my life, I always thought like I could do anything. I can be anything I want, right? All I have to do is apply [00:08:00] myself. And when I found myself in the moment of not having enough time, getting pulled between, especially when they're quite young, when they're mm-hmm.

Un three and under right? You can't leave them alone. And so it was the work time as well as being a mom. There was no time for myself. And I had so many passions even beyond my career that I wanted to do. Um, I remember there was even this one time, and it, like, every time I think of it, it makes me this have this like deep sadness.

Uh, I was looking at my daughter who was sleeping, and I like, this thought came to me of like, well, maybe this is what I was meant to do. This is why I'm here in the world to create this child or these children because they're the ones who's going to do something amazing. And that may, that that, like even now talking about it breaks my heart to think that I almost gave up on myself mm-hmm.

And what I felt like I could do and achieve. Yeah. 

Jess Ekstrom: And the thing is, is that, you know, going to your like [00:09:00] and statement is what if that is also true that you, that so much of your purpose is. Building your kids to be great humans who are gonna change the world and they can also watch you do it. That doesn't have to mean, uh, staying at home.

The, like I have said this before where I'm choosing part of my, my husband and I have talked about, like, part of my parenting philosophy that I'm choosing, which everyone can choose their own, is I want to. Have my kids see me trying. I want them to see me go try to build something. I want them to see me fail at something.

I want them to, you know, my daughter has her little computer that doesn't work and she comes and works, you know, beside me and I'm like, I like that She sees me building something. So can you talk about the like mother and. And [00:10:00] the extension of that because that, that healed something in me when I heard you talk about it.

Hazel Sy: I, there there's so many layers to that mother and, um, in the sense, so one of the layers is that I'm very thoughtful about how I talk about my time away from my children to my children. So if I'm working on something, like working on a talk, for example, taking a course I say mom has to study. I purposely don't use the word work because I don't want them to grow up thinking I'm supposed to be a workaholic.

Right. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Like I, so I call it study, actually. I give it, um, I may, I separate it and I also do things to expose my children to seeing me. Mm-hmm. So, for example, I didn't have them watch my TED talk. Because they can understand, and I think there's some parts of it I don't want them to feel guilty about at such a young age.

Mm. They'll understand when they're older. However, I did, um, I was MCing an event. Nearby that was kid friendly. So I had [00:11:00] them come and they got to watch me up on stage talking to people. Uh, I have, I'm taking an improv class. When we do our final improv show, I want them to come and watch me. Yeah. Just so that they're like, mom's doing it, so I wanna do it.

Mm-hmm. Because as you know, as a parent, as a mother, you're, your children adore you. They look up to you and they think like, you're the, the world, you're amazing, and they wanna be just like you. Mm-hmm. And so. It's really important to me that whatever they want to be just like is something I would want them to be like.

Jess Ekstrom: There's an interesting comment in the chat from Dana and I'm curious her take on it, and she said, I wonder how many dads are having these conversations. Mm-hmm. What, what was this like with your, I can speak from my experience, but I with you too. What was it like with your partner? Did they have the same tug of war?

Was it easier? Was it harder? What was that like?

Hazel Sy: It's in the beginning, I think naturally when they were [00:12:00] much younger, um, at least in our household, I tended to pick up a bigger part of it just because I was the one on maternity leave and it just started that way. Um, over time though, we started splitting the work for the children and I I did find that.

When we got into that swing of things starting to become stable as our kids got older, um, my husband didn't re-pick up the things that he used to do. And so that's part of one of the things we've been talking about. Like he loves photography and I was pushing him again, like, oh, when are you going to contact the photographer that you're going to do some work with?

Right. Um, because it is so easy, uh, to. Even if you do have the time, it is so easy to just fall back into some sort of routine. Mm-hmm. And, and not come back. Uh, but in terms of how many dads are having talks like this, I, I'm not sure. I don't think society, at least from my, per my [00:13:00] experiences, I don't think society sets the same expectations.

Um, like you hear, I'll hear my friends say. You know, if I hear someone say to my husband that, are you babysitting the kids this weekend? I'm gonna, because they're not babysitting. It's their children. Right? Yeah. Um, I think it's changed, but there's still a little bit of, 

Jess Ekstrom: there was some award show that happened last night and I don't, I can't remember what it was, but, and then Machine gun Kelly was like on the red carpet saying.

My daughter is sick, so I'm just here to walk the red carpet and then I'm gonna go home after this. I'm gonna skip the show and like be with her. And I like ran to the comments. I'm like, what are people saying? And it was like the bare minimum applause that some of these men get for like, you know, uh, for doing again, just.

Kind of the bare minimum, but it is [00:14:00] so, um, okay. Amass. Thank you. Someone in the chat said it, but it is so, uh, applauded because it is not where I'm like. A mom might not even go to the red carpet, not even tell anyone that, that this is happening. They're just gonna be there. And I'm not saying this is like a, uh, men versus women and, and trying to put it in these buckets, but it's just societal and historic expectations that even in some of the most progressive households, which I consider my household very progressive, no one was asking my husband.

What are you gonna do? You know, when the kids get here. But everyone was asking me, are you gonna keep speaking? Are you gonna keep doing this? What's, what's gonna happen? You know, when the, the kids are here? But he wasn't getting that same kind of questioning, which even that in, it's just the dialogue around it is different.

Hazel Sy: And I find that even as women, we are part of that [00:15:00] dialogue, right? Mm-hmm. Ask, we're the ones asking other women, what are you going to do as well? Yes. And so sometimes I catch myself. Am I just, you know, cont continuing it by even asking versus why don't I assume that they're going to continue working?

Mm-hmm. 

Jess Ekstrom: Yes. I, I kind of run through in my head now, I'm like, if I, if I'm gonna ask it to. The woman, I'm also gonna ask it to the man, like, and if I wouldn't then I'm not gonna say because I wouldn't want that, you know, for me. But there are some things that of course women uniquely go through, like birth or carrying a child.

That is great to, um, be able to have someone to talk about that with. But even just the, like when you try so much to be a egalitarian in 50 50 household, um, there's just. History and biology that can, that can override it. [00:16:00] Um, Heather said, dads are applauded for leaving to coach the soccer team and mom gets the eye roll for running a kid to the orthodontist.

A hundred percent true. So I don't, have you read the comments on your TED Talk? I don't know if you're like me and you don't read them. Have you read them? They're so good. I have. Um, and you 

Hazel Sy: know, and there are some that. Like, why are you going to, why are you taking care of animals instead of your kids?

Right. So that, that was part, and, and it, this writing the talk was really, um, you know, we talked about how society will question it because I, I didn't think only that men would say something. I thought women, I actually worried more from the backlash from women. Oh, interesting. Because, yeah, because I, I, I wondered there, there's two sides of it.

One is, am I gonna get a backlash from women who choose to stay home? Which is totally fine. Yeah. I was just positioning as if you want to go back to work or you want Yes, you want to do something else, choice. Um, which is why I very consciously emphasized in my [00:17:00] talk, the projects that I have versus saying, this lets me work longer hours.

'cause that wasn't the point. Interesting. Yeah. And, and I even ran the, uh, talk by a friend of mine who is a full-time mom, and I said, does this. Like, how does this sound irritate you in any way? Yeah. Or seem like I'm attacking you. And she said, no, because, um, even as a, as a full-time mom, it reminds me to take time away for me to do what I enjoy, right?

Mm-hmm. What I'm passionate about. It doesn't prevent me from doing that just 'cause I'm not working. Right. And then on, on the other side is people who are gonna say, why are you having someone else take care of your children? And that is, um, you know, I just tell myself. This is a snippet of my life. They, they don't see the whole thing and if they saw the whole thing, they might not say that, right?

Mm-hmm. Um, in that sense of, I value quality over quantity when it [00:18:00] comes to my children. So I will set the phone on the side. I actually rarely ever look at it when I'm with my kids. Um, and also. I'm very big into conscious parenting as well as, um, Montessori. And so there's a, for example, we took away our dining table, um, in the kitchen.

We don't even have a dining table in the kitchen anymore. And instead we have a kitty table and all of us sit around the kitty table. Love that. Like in these, these tiny chairs. I love that. So when they're a little bit older, we'll pull our old table back, but at least it gives them if, if they're equals to us.

Yes. Um, they're not in a high chair where they can't get out. 

Jess Ekstrom: Oh, I love that. And you know, I think whenever you give a talk, it's like you do run it through, what would the critic say? And that's something we teach in Mic Drop Academy too, is like right off the bat, speak to the critic and who, you know, might be someone made up in your head of someone saying, why are you taking care of animals more than you're taking care of your kids?

Which is hilarious by the way. And you know, I think you did that so well in your TED [00:19:00] Talk where it wasn't about like. Working moms being, um, something aspirational. It was purely just if this is what you choose to do, which that's what I think. I did a video, you know, when Harrison Bucker did his speech, you know, the commencement address saying that like, something around women aspirationally should be at home.

And, um, I think one of the reasons why it was so. Widely divisive was because people who spoke out against it. We're also portrayed as being against staying at home, when really it's all about just being able to have that choice if you want to. Yeah. Which you did that so beautifully in your TED Talk. So tell me, I know this is a gear shift, but we are speakers here that listened to this, a lot of us, the road to Ted for you, and then you had [00:20:00] kind of quite a lot go wrong the day of.

Right. Can you tell us about that? 

Hazel Sy: So the road to Ted. So first of all, I, when I what, even the TEDx talk itself was one of the things that epitomized my talk or my idea because I actually had always thought since I was younger, it would be cool to do a TED Talk. And it was one of those aspirational goals that you never think you're going to achieve.

So the fact that I went after it was already a big deal to me. Um, I, I had no plans to be a speaker afterwards or to do anything with it, but I just wanted to, to share this idea once I had it. And the process for TEDx Talks is you apply to each event separately. And I, I think I'd applied like 67 at this point with all rejections and nos.

That was quite alerting for me because you have to get used to putting yourself out there and getting the nose. Yeah. That this applies to everything in life. But literally the [00:21:00] day that I was telling somebody I don't think this is ever gonna happen was that day I got the, like the acceptance into Danville to example.

Oh my gosh. Like it, I don't know. I guess the timing was like the second I was about to give up. Yes. That's when I got the acceptance. Um, and then leading up to the TEDx talk. It was really hard, which I can imagine happens for any speaker on any platform because I was creating my talk. But I was talking to a lot of people to get their input, um, talking to a speaker coach, talking to my friends, et cetera.

And this is a very charged topic that a lot of people have strong opinions about. And so after a while, I felt like this was no longer my voice or my idea because everybody kept trying to insert their ideas into it. And, and so I get, I got really frustrated maybe three months of doing that. Finally, at that point, I set it aside and I said, okay, [00:22:00] I'm gonna start with a blank paper.

Now that I've gotten all that feedback, I'm gonna start with a blank paper. I'm not going to talk to anybody about this for two weeks, and I'm just gonna write from the heart. 

Jess Ekstrom: Mm-hmm. And, 

Hazel Sy: and write what my ideas and what I wanna say. Uh, and I think that worked really well because. One, one person told me, which was amazing, he said, look, you want to make sure if you fail, you fail because it was you and your idea.

Mm-hmm. Not you, that you didn't fail because it was someone else's. And that's what gave me the courage to like scrap it, start all over because I had to submit my talk script within, I was four weeks away, so I finished it two weeks before the deadline of a complete rewrite. So it was very tight. But I think it was worth it.

Um, it was 

Jess Ekstrom: a hundred percent worth it for sure. And if anyone hasn't watched Hazel's Ted Talk, Jane will put it in the chat. She's also gonna put in, um, you have a go-to speaker prep checklist, which is awesome. I wanna end [00:23:00] with, you're a speaker, you're a thought leader and doing some amazing things. How did motherhood shift your.

Stance on being a thought leader. I know for me it provided more depth in my emotion and like I just didn't know I could be that happy and that sad. I feel like I was living my life between like a four and a seven and motherhood. I now live in a one and a 10, which changes the way I show up on stage and with people.

I'm curious, how did motherhood change? You as a thought leader. 

Hazel Sy: So I would say motherhood made me more intentional. Um, I, I'm more thoughtful about all of my choices and all of my actions, I think because in my day to day now, anything I do or think will affect another person, right? These little people who can, who, who don't have full control of everything that's going on.

[00:24:00] And that intentionality really changes. How I show up for people. Um, I, it also helps me connect more deeply with the people that I interact with, that I work with. And even just a lot of the conscious parenting. Like I always thought if I did another TEDx talk, I talk about how conscious parenting applies to work because a lot of the skills that I learned of dealing with a 2-year-old, granted people are a lot older in the workplace, but ultimately we're all humans.

Yeah. And we have the same basic human needs. And so it even helps me with that. 

Jess Ekstrom: Totally. I, there was something like, I don't even know what it's called, but instead of telling my daughter what to do, I give her two choices. I'm like, okay, do you wanna sit over here or do you wanna stand over here to eat your dinner instead of eat your dinner?

You know? And I find like my husband and I do that with each other now. I'm like, do you wanna go take out the trash or do you wanna unload the dishwasher? Which one do you wanna do? And then we catch ourselves. I'm like, are you gentle parenting me right now? [00:25:00] It works better for influence, right? It works.

It works. Hazel, you're amazing. Where else can everyone find you along with watching your TED Talk? 

Hazel Sy: Um, definitely just LinkedIn here, as well as Instagram and Facebook, the hazel sy. Um, but otherwise you'll catch me at different events and talks. Uh, I'll be posting about it on the feed. So thank you so much for having me, Jess.

Thanks Hazel. I'm so, so appreciative to be in your world as well now for MDA. 

Jess Ekstrom: Oh, good. Thank you. And you have, uh, some of your MDA cohort fans in the chat, so I love it. That was the best part, one 

Hazel Sy: of the best parts, the community, so thank you. Oh, I 

Jess Ekstrom: love it. Thank you.

Thanks for listening to Amplify. If you're a fan of the show, show us some podcast love by giving us a rating and review. This episode is brought to you by Mic Drop Workshop, where you can learn how to become a better speaker, how to land paid speaking gigs, [00:26:00] and become a keynote speaker. This episode was edited and produced by Walk West.

I'm Jess  reminding you that you deserve the biggest. Stage. So let's find out how to get you there. I'll see you again soon.