Is Cancel Culture Actually Working?

JUMP TO

PODCAST HOME

LISTEN TO THE EPISODE

ON THIS EPISODE OF AMPLIFY

This week on Amplify, Jess sits down with her good friend, Brit Barron, a speaker, DEI consultant, and author of Do You Still Talk to Grandma?

Brit and Jess discuss our divided society, examining why it feels harder than ever to see eye to eye. They challenge the tendency to categorize people into “good” or “bad” boxes and instead champion the power of nuance, where love and disagreement can coexist.

WE ALSO EXPLORE:

ABOUT OUR GUEST

Brit Barron

Brit Barron is a speaker, DEI consultant, and author of the book Do You Still Talk to Grandma?, which offers a compassionate framework for navigating difficult conversations and maintaining relationships across differences. Her work encourages empathy, nuance, and genuine connection in an increasingly divided world.

FOLLOW BRIT

RESOURCES & LINKS

Get Brit’s book – Do You Still Talk to Grandma? 

Amplify with Jess is produced by Walk West and brought to you by Mic Drop Workshop.

TRANSCRIPT

[00:09] Britt Barron:

What do we do when both deep love and deep disappointment exist in the same relationship?

There’s deep, deep love and deep, deep disappointment.

And what do we do when those two things exist together, right?

That’s why I say my work isn’t for strangers, ’cause I’m like, yeah, if this was just a random lady and I’m like, oh, I don’t know, I can unfollow. Like it’s just being able to allow more than one thing to be true is the beginning of so much of our work.

[00:33] Jess Ekstrom:

Welcome to Amplify with Jess Ekstrom.

If you’re ready to amplify your ideas, your influence, and your income, then you’re in the right place.

[00:42] Jess:

All right, I’m just gonna say it. I am being a selfish podcaster today because I needed this conversation.

[00:50] Jess:

My guest, Britt Barron, is the author of Do You Still Talk to Grandma?

A book that I have gifted to so many people because it has helped me navigate something I think we’re all struggling with:

How do we stay connected to people in our lives when we don’t see eye to eye with them?

Whether it’s at work, in our families, or just in everyday interactions, it can feel like we’re constantly scanning for who’s on our side and who’s not.

And let’s be real, sometimes it’s easier to just put people into boxes of good or bad, right or wrong.

[01:27] Jess:

But Britt’s work is all about finding the in-betweens, the nuance, the space where love and disagreement can coexist.

[01:36] Jess:

Britt is a speaker, an author, and someone who has been helping me personally figure out how to hold space for people with different perspectives without completely losing my mind.

[01:47] Jess:

So in this conversation, we get into all of it. Cancel culture, calling people in instead of calling them out, and how to navigate relationships when you feel deeply disappointed by someone you love.

[01:59] Jess:

And it all starts with this big question.

[02:02] Jess:

Why does the world feel more divided than ever?

[02:07] Britt:

What’s difficult about right now is that I think a lot of us are having a difficult time sort of dismantling institutions from people.

And so everything has sort of become identity politics.

When we are faced with again and again and again, the most extreme versions of things—the most extreme rhetoric, the most extreme policies, the most extreme rollbacks—we divide into camps.

And anyone who’s in that camp now holistically becomes a part of that thing.

[02:51] Britt:

Obviously, we are in one of the most polarized times like I’ve ever seen.

And I think it’s beneficial to systems and institutions to keep that polarization going.

[02:59] Britt:

It’s beneficial in a lot of ways.

So now it’s our responsibility to say, OK, but what does that look like in terms of individuals?

[03:05] Britt:

And I’ve said this again and again—my work, I don’t know what to do about strangers.

Like, I don’t know what to do about a lady in Kansas who I disagree with, whom I’ve never met and has never sat at the table with me.

[03:17] Britt:

My work is for the people who already exist in our lives. Can we find some more nuance instead of saying, “Oh, I saw you like that one post. That means I know everything about you,” right?

[03:28] Britt:

When the reality is we don’t.

And if we want to move forward together and combat some of these things happening in the world, we’re gonna have to get into some more nuance.

[03:36] Jess:

One of the things I found so interesting about your book is—probably just like the headline of what’s wrong not just with me but with everyone—is like:

“Oh good, I’m gonna read this book Do You Still Talk to Grandma? so I can help change other people.”

[03:55] Jess:

And what I realized through reading your book was it was a lot more about how to change myself.

How to look in the mirror at where my beliefs came from.

And how to, you know, it sounds cliché, but hold space for people who might not be where I’m sitting.

[04:15] Jess:

A really good example you had of this was talking about movies that don’t hold up today.

Can you explain that? This was one of my favorite parts.

[04:29] Britt:

Yeah. I think we arrive at a certain point and we’re like, “Okay, now that I have all the right information and I know all the right things…

Now people can come to my side.”

But we forget sometimes all the things that we used to participate in before our own evolution.

[04:47] Britt:

And the easiest example of that is movies that don’t hold up.

[04:51] Britt:

You have movies where you’re like, “When I watched it, I was like this is so funny. This is incredible. This is everything.”

I think one of the examples I use in the book is Peter Pan, where you’re like, “Yeah, this was one of my favorite movies from childhood.”

I just had exclusively fond memories of it.

[05:07] Britt:

And then Disney+ came out, and we have access to all these movies. I’m like, “Oh my gosh, I’m going to rewatch it.”

And I’m like—terrible.

[05:15] Jess:

Literally this weekend, my husband watched Beauty and the Beast with our two-year-old, and I’m like,

“Wait… this is like a man holding a woman captive? What?!”

[05:32] Britt:

Yeah!

[05:34] Jess:

And we watched this movie all the time.

[05:43] Britt:

Even movies from—oh my gosh—from our high school, college time.

You know what I mean?

[05:46] Jess:

Well, The Office!

Have you watched The Office recently?

[05:47] Jess:

There are so many things in The Office where I’m like, “I love this show. But oh my gosh—this would not fly today.”

[05:55] Britt:

Yeah!

[05:56] Jess:

What was the movie—was it The Hangover?

[05:57] Jess:

We watched it. I was like, “Oh this is so funny!”

And there’s like a joke right in the beginning where I was like, “This is really uncomfortable…”

[06:09] Britt:

Yeah. Not only was it funny, it wasn’t like they were pushing boundaries.

This was all socially acceptable.

[06:16] Jess:

Right.

[06:27] Britt:

And I think it’s important to note that.

You have a natural evolution that happens. And you have to acknowledge that you are also a part of that evolution.

[06:28] Jess:

Mm-hmm. 100%.

[06:39] Jess:

Like, have you ever logged into a social media platform, and it’s like, “10 years ago today, you posted this”?

[06:43] Jess:

And every time that comes up, I’m like—hold my breath.

I’m like, “What did I say?”

[06:45] Jess:

Because you realize—like I think you called it “progressive amnesia” in your book—

You think that the beliefs and values and morals you have today, you’ve always had.

[06:58] Jess:

But you realize, no—I had to learn these. I had to get here.

There are some things I posted that aren’t necessarily terrible, but I wouldn’t put my stamp of approval on them today.

[07:13] Jess:

So when it comes to cancel culture—and people being canceled for something that resurfaced from 10 years ago—

On what grounds do you feel like we should hold people accountable for their past?

Or are we hurting more than helping?

[07:36] Britt:

Yeah. I mean, it’s definitely a both/and. There’s a lot of nuance here.

[07:41] Britt:

But one point—I don’t like when people bring up something someone said 10 years ago,

especially if that person has openly apologized for it.

[07:51] Britt:

They’re like, “Yeah, I said that. That was a dumb thing. I believed that 10 years ago. I don’t believe that anymore.”

And we’re like, “You must pay!”

[07:57] Britt:

I’m like, you don’t want to know.

Every day, I thank God that social media wasn’t around when I was in high school.

[08:04] Britt:

I don’t even know what I would have said—but it’s nothing I’d want out there publicly today.

[08:11] Britt:

We want to be right so bad as humans.

We want to feel the comfort of certitude.

That comfort comes from feeling like, “I have finally arrived with all the right answers.”

[08:25] Britt:

But if you’re not awkwardly giggling at the things you thought 10 years ago, you’re not doing it right.

Even right now—we’re not in our final forms.

[08:35] Britt:

I’m not in my final form.

We’ll look back on even this conversation and be like, “Oh, there are things I clearly didn’t understand then.”

[08:42] Britt:

When we cancel people for evolving—or for not knowing something at one point—it feels inherently hypocritical.

Because we all did that. Evolution has to be an opportunity.

[08:54] Britt:

And in our current political climate, something I’ve heard a lot—

which is very troublesome—is: “If you voted this way, you’re done. That’s it.”

[09:05] Britt:

That’s the one bad decision you get to make.

[09:10] Britt:

But I’ve made lots of decisions.

[09:13] Britt:

We need people to be able—it has to be OK to change your mind.

We need invitation into that evolution.

But if we always hold people accountable to one thing they’ve said, we’re missing it.

[09:24] Jess:

Yeah. And I think there’s one hand: someone said a tweet that resurfaced from 10 years ago—

OK, let’s give them the benefit of the doubt to evolve.

[09:32] Jess:

But what about something someone said five minutes ago?

Or something someone just posted?

[09:36] Jess:

You talk about this in your book—your good friend Rachel Hollis posted something problematic.

And you had a choice to make: “This is a good friend of mine. I don’t like what she said. What is my position here?”

When is it time to have the conversation with someone?

And am I in the right place to do that?

That’s what I struggle with sometimes.

[10:07] Britt:

Yeah. I think it’s, you know, like Dr. King said, “The time is always right to do what’s right.”

And I think it’s always good to have the conversation.

[10:15] Britt:

Something that’s hard is our expectations that we put on it.

I had a friend this week who was telling me how he has a friend—

They have some political differences, but he loves this person.

And he just found out all these things that they believe.

[10:31] Britt:

So he’s like, “I prepared for two weeks. I had all these arguments and research.

I printed out the research.”

Then he said, “I confronted her. We had a three-hour conversation.

And I just feel like it didn’t work.”

[10:43] Britt:

And I was like, “Oh, what was the expectation?

That one conversation was going to be the end-all be-all for someone’s transformation?”

[10:49] Jess:

That sounds like me.

I was like, “But I went through my checklist!”

[10:55] Britt:

Yeah, yeah, yeah!

“But I said everything! I did all the things!”

[10:59] Britt:

And I think about the shifts in my life, the things I’ve followed and grown through—

the friends who have been there with me.

It wasn’t like I read one tweet and was like, “Oh my gosh! I’ve been doing it wrong.”

Or I had one conversation and suddenly changed.

[11:13] Britt:

Even with my friend Rachel—it wasn’t like, “OK, I need to have this one defining moment with you.”

It was like, “OK, we need to start a lot of conversations.”

[11:25] Britt:

That’s just the nature of relationships.

You know this. Your partner, your kids—all these things.

You have to be in it with someone.

[11:36] Britt:

And that’s why I say: the people that you’re in it with? Be in it.

The strangers? Hit unfollow and move on. It’s fine.

[11:45] Britt:

But we have to figure out how to do work together.

[11:47] Jess:

And one of the things I think is kind of like—there’s a filtering process we all go through.

Someone says something we don’t agree with. And we have to ask:

“Is it my place to step in?

Is it not?”

[11:59] Jess:

You talk about the difference between being offended by something and being harmed by something.

And those are two different things.

[12:08] Jess:

There are times when we don’t have to stand by people who are being harmful.

Can you talk about the difference?

[12:18] Britt:

Yeah.

We all should have a line, right?

Where we say, “This is the point where I’m experiencing harm. This is no longer safe, and I need to be out.”

[12:31] Britt:

And I also feel like we need to have times where we’re like,

“OK, this is offensive to me. I want to engage in this conversation.”

[12:38] Britt:

One of the examples I use is:

A friend wears a headdress to Coachella—offensive.

Harvey Weinstein—harmful.

[12:47] Britt:

We have to be able to understand when we’re offended versus when there is harm.

[12:55] Britt:

We have to be willing to—

I always say: pick people up on the ski slope.

[13:05] Britt:

There was a book club reading my book, and one person there was Indigenous.

She told me about her experience of someone wearing a headdress to Coachella—

and how offensive that really is.

[13:16] Britt:

I said, “Absolutely.”

Something I say all the time:

The minute you begin to other someone, the last domino is violence.

[13:24] Britt:

So it’s all connected.

I’m not saying it’s good or morally neutral to do these things.

[13:29] Britt:

But if we look at the domino chain, and we start with something offensive—

If we can pick someone up on that first domino…

Redirect, educate, unpack before it gets to violence—

We’re in a much better spot.

[13:49] Britt:

But when we treat this domino the same as that domino,

I don’t know that we’re helping as much.

[14:00] Jess:

Let’s talk about picking people up.

When we do recognize—let’s say someone at work—

I have a friend who’s a Black woman.

Men at work have commented on her natural hair and said things like,

“Oh, have your hair done for this meeting” or “Do something.”

And she’s like, “This is not OK.”

[14:25] Jess:

When there are times that you need to step in—

Do you have any parameters or ways to communicate that doesn’t put people in the hot seat,

but instead makes it a growing experience?

[14:44] Britt:

Yeah.

Well, workplace is specific. But all of our relationships have parameters.

There’s workplace.

There’s family.

There’s romantic.

There’s peripheral, acquaintance, and then celebrity or parasocial.

[15:00] Britt:

I always say the three most helpful words in the English language are:

Help me understand.

[15:05] Britt:

I always find it best when I’m able to allow someone—even if I believe what they said is problematic—

to explain it.

To break it down.

[15:17] Britt:

So I’ll say:

“Help me understand the difference between professional and unprofessional hair.”

Or

“Help me understand the parameters around that.”

[15:22] Britt:

Like, I would like you to explain it to me.

Then we can be having a conversation.

[15:33] Britt:

Usually for me, that works better than saying:

“Let me explain to you why you’re wrong.”

[15:39] Britt:

Instead:

“Explain it to me. Let’s keep going.

Let’s keep unpacking until you have to catch yourself saying that Black people’s natural hair is unprofessional.”

[15:50] Britt:

And I want you to hear yourself say that.

And now we have a building block.

[15:56] Jess:

Yeah—help me understand.

Because again, you’re coming from a place of:

“Hey, let’s get on the same page here. I want you to explain it to me.”

[16:05] Jess:

Something I’ve noticed over the years—

You don’t want… it’s not your job to explain to me about racism or Black women’s hair.

[16:17] Jess:

But at the same time, I want to become educated.

I want to help.

I want to better understand how I can be an ally.

[16:24] Jess:

In your book, you talk about how in 2020, white women were kind of at the front of this quote-unquote heroic movement—

Like, “Let’s save this.”

But it wasn’t as helpful as we thought.

[16:45] Jess:

I’ll be the first to raise my hand.

I sprung into, “What can I do? Let me do this.”

Instead of listening.

[16:59] Jess:

So can you explain—help me better understand that?

And also, how can we be better allies without stepping into that kind of hero role that can be harmful?

[17:17] Britt:

Yeah. Well, it’s two things.

[17:19] Britt:

I think it’s all tied to what we talked about earlier: the concept of progressive amnesia.

[17:24] Britt:

And I think white women in particular in 2020 had this moment.

You’ve run your whole life without knowing racism is real or exists.

You hear one podcast. You see one video. It’s trending.

And all of a sudden:

“OK, I’m a social justice warrior.”

[17:43] Britt:

And inherently, that’s not bad.

It’s not bad to learn new information and act accordingly.

[17:49] Britt:

However—when you do that at the expense of forgetting that you didn’t know this last week…

And now you’re taking down other white women because they didn’t know something you just found out?

[18:05] Britt:

It was wild to me.

[18:06] Britt:

It’s this fear—this human thing—

“Oh my gosh, I was wrong. I did something wrong.

I want to hide that and overcorrect. I want to be so right.

I want to be the best white woman who ever lived.”

[18:19] Britt:

“I want to be the most right out of everyone else.

And I’m going to tell everyone else how they’re not right.”

[18:27] Jess:

Exactly.

[18:31] Britt:

And I feel like the cure for progressive amnesia is empathy.

[18:33] Britt:

Empathy first for yourself—

Then for other people.

[18:37] Britt:

It’s not wrong to be anti-racist.

It’s not wrong to want to be an ally.

[18:42] Britt:

Those things aren’t bad.

[18:44] Britt:

But if you can’t remember what it felt like to be the person who didn’t know…

To be the one who got called out…

To be the one who didn’t understand why something was offensive…

If you lose touch with that, your work is going to be far less effective.

[19:03] Jess:

It’s like the example in your book when people were talking about Blink-182.

And it’s like, “Wait—you’ve never heard of Blink-182?”

[19:11] Jess:

We’ve all been in that situation where people are talking about a movie and they’re like,

“You’ve never seen this movie?!”

[19:17] Jess:

And it’s like—we point out the lack of information that someone has.

Why do we do that?

[19:23] Britt:

You know… we love it.

We love it.

[19:28] Britt:

This is so funny. A few weeks ago, a friend of ours was like,

“Whoa—have you heard Doechii?”

And we’re like, “Oh, so good!”

[19:35] Britt:

Then Doechii performed at the Grammys—like the night before.

And that same friend, hilariously, we were watching the Grammys together, and another friend goes,

“Who is this?”

And she goes, “You’ve never heard of Doechii?!”

[19:46] Britt:

And I’m like—you just heard of her two weeks ago in the car!

Like we just have this thing where we’re like, “Finally—this is a time where I can be on the high horse.”

[19:56] Britt:

We have to curb that.

And I think the only way to curb that is empathy.

Constant empathy.

[20:05] Jess:

And I think this gets slippery in thought leadership.

A lot of people listen to this show because they’re speakers, aspiring speakers, authors.

[20:15] Jess:

And I feel like as a thought leader, you’re almost getting paid to have certainty around things.

You’re getting paid to have a point of view.

You’re getting paid to have what you call “cognitive closure.”

But sometimes that’s not the best thing when it comes to being someone who’s open to learning and growing.

[20:36] Jess:

You are also a speaker, author, and an amazing thought leader.

How can we pursue this as a career and say,

“This is what I believe. This is the key to success. This is what you need in your morning routine…”

But also have a dot-dot-dot in this career?

[21:01] Britt:

Yeah. A few things.

[21:04] Britt:

One—you just have to know what you know.

And you have to know what you know.

[21:12] Britt:

I almost never overreach.

Someone once asked me:

“Can you talk about the connection between architecture as it relates to city planning and DEI?”

[21:22] Britt:

I was like—nope!

You lost me. I don’t know that.

[21:24] Britt:

Here’s what I feel like I know at the moment.

And I’m always open to the evolution.

[21:28] Britt:

So one: stick with what you know.

[21:31] Britt:

Two: I think of thought leadership as framing a conversation using what I know.

[21:37] Britt:

So—“Here’s what’s worked for me in a morning routine.”

We’re starting a conversation.

[21:51] Britt:

And I feel like we have responsibility, and our audience also has responsibility.

[21:58] Britt:

Growing up in church, there was a phrase we always used to say when people would speak:

Take the meat and leave the bones.

[22:00] Britt:

Meaning—if it hits you, it hits you.

And if it doesn’t, it doesn’t.

[22:04] Britt:

So—what part of that did you like?

Take that.

[22:05] Britt:

What part didn’t hit?

Leave that.

[22:08] Britt:

It’s so funny to me when I’m scrolling on TikTok and there’s a recipe for a chicken casserole and someone comments:

“But I’m vegan!”

[22:20] Britt:

And it’s like… OK, well then don’t make the chicken casserole?

[22:25] Jess:

Yeah.

[22:25] Britt:

It blows my mind that we think every source of information, every video we find,

should be made and tailored for us and our specific human experience.

[22:39] Britt:

Or that if we like something, we have to like all of it.

[22:42] Britt:

An example—not even shade to him—but someone like Andrew Huberman.

I listened to a thing he said about cold plunging.

Sammy and I started doing it, and I found it really helpful.

[22:54] Britt:

Then afterward I was like, “I don’t really like anything else he’s saying.”

But that doesn’t make what he said about cold plunging invalid.

[23:00] Britt:

That part was helpful to me.

And that gets to stay helpful.

I don’t have to drag him through the mud.

[23:14] Jess:

And I had to realize—

A lot of the people out there making these statements about morning routines like

“12 things to do before 5 a.m.”—

They’re also not getting up with little kids.

[23:30] Jess:

So that doesn’t apply to me.

And I’m not going to say, “Screw this person. They don’t have kids.”

I’m just going to say:

“This morning routine doesn’t work for the season of life I’m in. So I don’t need it.”

[23:43] Jess:

And I think that’s so easily forgotten online—

“This thing wasn’t made for me.”

[23:55] Jess:

Going back to thought leadership—

One of the things that also stood out to me in your book was the pastor you worked for that you had some problems with.

One thing—among many—you mentioned was that he only told stories where he was the hero.

[24:07] Jess:

That’s something really notable for people here who are speakers or aspiring thought leaders.

Sometimes the stories we tell that are the most impactful are the ones where we didn’t look the best.

Where the “movie didn’t age well.”

Would you agree?

[24:39] Britt:

Yeah.

It’s the stories that are the most meaningful.

Everything worth having in my life came on the other side of one of those stories.

You know?

[24:51] Britt:

It’s very rare that I’m just having a perfect day and a perfect week and I’m like,

“I grew so much. I just learned so much this week.”

You know?

[24:59] Britt:

Those weeks are good. But it’s the times where we can be human, and access that humanity,

that allow us to connect with someone else and say:

“Oh my gosh. This is how far I missed the mark. And I was able to come back.”

[25:10] Britt:

That’s how we turn around.

Every single story I tell in the book is a mistake I made.

[25:18] Britt:

So I think that’s far more helpful.

And at the end of the day, you’re exactly right.

We’re not talking to everybody.

We’re not trying to say, “Hey, everyone in the world, you are my audience.”

[25:31] Britt:

We’re trying to connect with the people we can actually connect to.

For me, that’s people who’ve made mistakes, who are open to making more,

who want to learn from them, who want to turn things around.

[25:43] Britt:

That’s so important to me.

I’m just personally not interested in someone who’s like,

“Hey, I figured it all out. Here’s how to be right every single time and never mess up.”

[25:52] Britt:

I’m like—“Oh, you’re not talking to me.”

[25:55] Jess:

Yes! You’re not talking to me.

[25:58] Jess:

I used to speak from a place of trying to prove my credibility:

“This is what I’ve done. This is what has worked.”

And it just wasn’t hitting.

[26:09] Jess:

Now I speak from a place of, “Here’s what I can teach from a point of view when I was a student.

Here’s where I learned this.”

[26:22] Jess:

That’s when I feel like my speaking career really started to take off.

Instead of saying,

“One time I was on the Today Show,” or “I started a company that did something…”

It was more like:

“Here’s a time I got $10,000 stolen from me, and how I needed to find a way to get it back.”

[26:37] Jess:

So a lot of times with speaking, we think, “Oh, I need to go up there and prove myself.”

When really it’s—“How do I tell them what I wish I knew when…”

[26:48] Britt:

Yeah.

And I think some of the most impactful advice I’ve gotten—even as a speaker—is:

Be true to your thing.

[26:59] Britt:

There are lots of skills you need to be on stage.

All these things you could do.

But at the end of the day, you have to show up.

It would be a shame for someone to fly you all the way across the country to speak,

and you don’t show up.

[27:13] Britt:

So it’s like: How can you embrace that in your audience and your time—

and not put on the show?

[27:20] Britt:

You and I have both dabbled in the stand-up world.

And possibly my favorite thing about comedy is that it’s 100% subjective.

[27:31] Britt:

I have friends who will cackle—like keel over laughing—at a comedian.

And I’m like, “I don’t get it.”

[27:37] Jess:

“Don’t get it. Yeah.”

[27:39] Britt:

That doesn’t make that comedian not good.

She’s just not for me. She’s for her audience.

[27:43] Britt:

And there are people I love—comedians who make me cry laughing.

And I show my wife and she’s like, “What?”

[27:49] Britt:

And I’m like, “No, this is SO funny!”

[27:51] Jess:

It’s why those two people marry each other—

the ones who don’t find the same things funny.

[27:56] Britt:

Yeah. Every time.

[27:59] Jess:

So I want to close with something I think we can all really take as a launching pad as we go into our work lives and relationships with people.

And that’s the “both/and” philosophy you talk about in your book.

[28:15] Jess:

We all have people in our lives that maybe right now we feel offended by.

Maybe they voted differently than us.

Some of those people we’re really close to.

Some of them are people we work with.

[28:28] Jess:

It’s funny—after the election, my therapist was booked out.

She was like, “I’m sorry, I’m trying to get to everyone.”

And I was like, this just shows where we’re all at.

We’re all having these problems holding the “both/and” for people.

[28:45] Jess:

I’d love for you to talk about the title Do You Still Talk to Grandma?,

and how we can hold space for both love and disappointment as we go forward.

[28:58] Britt:

Yeah.

I think the crux—at the very bottom of this book—was:

What do we do when both deep love and deep disappointment exist in the same relationship?

[29:12] Britt:

The title of the book came from dinner with a group of friends.

One friend was talking about going to a lake house with her family—

the place she’d gone forever.

Her grandparents were there.

They were hanging out. It was beautiful.

She had this amazing relationship with her grandmother.

[29:28] Britt:

Then she said, “But I found out she voted for Trump.”

And another friend at the table said, “Do you still talk to her?”

[29:34] Britt:

And she was like, “My nana? My nana?!”

[29:37] Britt:

One of my favorite lines in the book—“My nana?”

[29:39] Britt:

Yes. The woman who made her spaghetti after school,

snuck her cookies when her parents weren’t looking.

[29:45] Britt:

As if that one piece of information canceled out all the rest.

And they’re both true.

[29:53] Britt:

There is deep, deep love.

And there is deep, deep disappointment.

[29:56] Britt:

And what do we do when those two things exist together?

[30:00] Britt:

That’s why I say—my work isn’t for strangers.

If it’s just a random lady? Sure, unfollow.

[30:06] Britt:

But this is real life.

Where there’s nuance.

There’s love and disappointment.

[30:12] Britt:

Being able to allow more than one thing to be true—

That’s the beginning of so much of our work.

[30:19] Britt:

There’s a sociologist I talk about all the time who says every person needs two things:

[30:23] Britt:

Bonding circles and bridging circles.

[30:25] Britt:

Bonding circles are the people where it’s a deep breath.

We all voted the same.

We think the same.

We’re in the same wavelength.

It feels like, “Okay. I’m home.”

[30:33] Britt:

Then we need bridging circles—

People who take us to the edge.

Where we have differences.

Where they push us, we push them.

We’re engaged in the work.

[30:47] Britt:

You can’t live all in one or the other.

You need both.

[30:52] Britt:

And in bridging circles, you have to let two things be true:

“I love this person, and I’m disappointed in this.”

“I care about this person, and I think they’re wrong.”

“This person holds some of my core memories, and I think they’re offensive.”

[31:09] Britt:

We just have to let two things be true.

And then start that bridging work.

[31:14] Jess:

Honestly, I feel like you needed to be in everyone’s ears, eyes, and hands the past few months.

If you’re struggling with how to get along with people in your life that you don’t agree with—

Definitely, definitely, definitely not only give Britt a follow, but buy Do You Still Talk to Grandma?

Because it has been my guiding light.

[31:39] Jess:

Britt, thank you so much.

Anywhere else people can find or connect with you?

[31:45] Britt:

You can find me on the internet at brittbarron.com,

@brittbarron on most socials.

And if you’re walking around LA, you might see me!

[31:55] Jess:

Yes. Britt, thank you so much for being here.

[31:58] Britt:

Thanks for having me.

[32:03] Jess:

Thanks for listening to Amplify.

If you’re a fan of the show, show us some podcast love by giving us a rating and review.

[32:10] Jess:

This episode is brought to you by Mic Drop Workshop,

where you can learn how to become a better speaker,

land paid speaking gigs, and become a keynote speaker.

[32:20] Jess:

This episode was edited and produced by Walk West.

I’m Jess Ekstrom, reminding you that you deserve the biggest stage.

So let’s find out how to get you there.

[32:29] Jess:

I’ll see you again soon.

MORE FROM THE AMPLIFY PODCAST

Mic Drop Workshop® helps women tell and sell their story as paid public speakers

Subscribe to our weekly newsletter! 

Receive direct access to upcoming events and event planners who are looking for women speakers, keynote speakers, motivational speakers, event industry trends, and our favorite speaker products & services.

© Copyright 2025  Jess Ekstrom. All Rights Reserved    |   Terms & Conditions   |   Privacy Policy    |   FAQ    |   Contact
Advertise With Us
Website & Branding Design by omc.