Are Women Critiqued More Harshly than Men? Let’s Talk about it with The First Lady of Iceland Eliza Reid

Eliza Reid

The First Lady of Iceland

Eliza Reid, a Canadian-born writer and editor, is the First Lady of Iceland. Born in 1976 in Ottawa, Canada, she moved to Iceland in 2003 after meeting her Icelandic husband, Guðni Th. Jóhannesson, who later became Iceland’s President in 2016.

Eliza Reid is a writer and editor passionate about literature and storytelling. In 2014, she co-founded the Iceland Writers Retreat, which has gained popularity and attracts writers worldwide for workshops and cultural tours. This demonstrates Eliza’s dedication to fostering literary talent and international collaboration.

Eliza has written articles for The New York Times, The Globe and Mail, and The Guardian, exploring themes of culture, identity, and Icelandic life.

As First Lady, Eliza advocates for gender equality, mental health awareness, and Icelandic culture, sharing insights on social media.

Her first book, “Secrets of the Sprakkar: Iceland’s Extraordinary Women and How They Are Changing the World,” was published in 2021, showcasing Icelandic women’s achievements and the country’s progress toward gender equality.

SHOW NOTES

Join Jess on the season finale of Amplify as she sits down with Eliza Reid, the First Lady of Iceland.

Eliza shares her unique journey from freelance journalist to spouse of the President of Iceland.

Together, they discuss the challenges and opportunities of her role, her advocacy for gender equality, and her passion for writing and supporting women.

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Rate Amplify on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and leave a review for Jess Ekstrom.

Amplify with Jess is produced by Earfluence, and brought to you by Mic Drop Workshop.

TRANSCRIPT

**Eliza:
There’s definitely, definitely no handbook on how to be a first lady. And I think, especially at the beginning, I always felt like I was kind of fumbling around in the dark a little bit. But I was always pretty clear that I really wanted to try to make the most of what I could with it. And learn along the way and really do my best so that when this once in a lifetime opportunity is over, I can kind of look back and feel like I did the most from it and hopefully, you know, help to nudge things a little bit in the right direction.

**Jess:
Welcome to Amplify with Jess Ekstrom, a show designed to help women get out of their head and into their zone of influence. Today’s guest is First Lady of Iceland, Eliza Reid. I had the privilege of meeting Eliza when she was on tour, promoting her book, Secrets of the Sprakkar, and she happened to be visiting Raleigh. When the bookstore asked me to introduce her, I had just had my first daughter, Ellie, and so I was probably most excited to get out of the house for a little bit. For anyone wondering, Sprakkar, by the way, is an ancient Icelandic word meaning extraordinary or outstanding women. And I found Eliza to be exactly that, an outstanding speaker and someone whose mission is to uplift other women. In fact, last October, Eliza was literally on the front lines organizing a gender equality strike.

**Eliza:
It was a follow-up to an event in 1975 when 90% of the women of Iceland took a day off. To protest ongoing wage inequalities. And even in Iceland, which ranks number one in the world for gender equality, we still haven’t closed that gap. And so we decided we, it wasn’t me. But the organizers decided last year that it was time for another strike on the same day in October that had happened before. This time, especially with an emphasis on non-binary individuals and on eliminating gender based violence. And so that was. You know, a really important day, again, gorgeous weather, a lot of enthusiasm. And, you know, I put my out of office on saying I’m not answering or checking my emails today. And this is what we’re doing. And I think it turned really, really positive. Although one thing that I noticed, which has made me aware of it, is the number of people who I spoke to by, are you going on the strike? And they said, oh, I got to look after my kids that day. And I said, well, that’s what you have your husband, you know, look after the kids.

**Jess:
Yeah, that’s not the point.

**Eliza:
Yeah, that’s not the point.

**Jess:
Yeah, yeah.

**Eliza:
Well, he’s got such an important job. And it kind of made me realize that we are very fortunate in Iceland with many things. And many of these people, you know, myself, they speak from a point of privilege, because they do have this relationship where they’re, you know, their job is all right, and they might not earn as much as a man, but it’s close enough. And it’s almost what I call them, the danger of good enough that maybe they feel that things, they might not be perfect, but they’re good enough that they’re not worth going on strike for a day for. And I think that we have to be a little bit careful of that complacency, because you can imagine all the people that are there who weren’t able to go on strike, even if they wanted to, who are maybe single parents or who live in insecure environment or have a job that they had to seek. So I think that that almost shows. Even more clearly why we still need to have these kind of events.

**Jess:
Absolutely. I mean, being able to take the day off. I even think about this when we have conversations around self-care with women, especially in parenting. It’s like, well, take time for yourself. Take that long bubble bath. Go to yoga. And it’s like, Yeah, that’s a privilege, you know, to be able to take that time to do that. And so I think there’s, you know, the fact that just taking a shower is now deemed self-care for women is problematic.

**Eliza:
We’ve changed the bar. That’s very true. That’s a good point. And, you know, I talk a lot about that as well, this, you know, can women have it all? And to me, striving for greater quality is this idea about choosing, you know, I don’t think that we can have it all, but I wish that we could all choose which of the all we want to have. You know, for me, maybe that’s having a really busy professional career and kids who are kind of clean more or less all the time and aren’t on their devices too much. Somebody else may prefer to go to the gym three times a day or have a house that’s perfectly tidy. And there is no right or wrong. But I think that if we’re at the point where we’re debating which ball to drop or which one we want to prioritize, again, that shows the privilege that we have to make that choice because a lot of people have to work three jobs because otherwise they can’t pay rent. And a lot of people have to serve unhealthy food to their kids because that’s the only food that they can afford. And, and, and so, you know, we have to look at all those kinds of things and try to remember that we’re not, you know, all in the same situation.

**Jess:
Absolutely. And I was alluding to this a little bit before we hit record, but I think it’s so serendipitous that you and I are chatting now as I’m now pregnant with my second, because I don’t think you know this, but you were a very instrumental part of my postpartum journey with my first. And being able to interview you for your book tour, people thought I was crazy because it was six weeks after I had Ellie, but I just felt like I didn’t know who I was anymore. And I think that a lot of women who have their first child or second, I’m not sure, I don’t have context for that yet. The things that you based your success on are completely opposite once you are in the midst of parenting. How productive I am, how successful I am, even just levels of fitness and activity and my relationships with people, all of a sudden, those metrics are on the other end of the spectrum. And so when I was asked to come interview you and chat with you, it was almost like this lifeboat that lifted me out to remind me who I was. And especially with the topic and the stories in your book. And I remember one of the stories that you told was your first introduction to women at work in Iceland. And I don’t know if it was your boss or, someone in your company who was leading a meeting while she was breastfeeding, no one batted an eye. She handed her baby off to another male in the room. There was no jokes that were made. There was no puns or jabs. And you were like, okay, this place is different. Yeah. Tell me about that. Yeah.

**Eliza:
Yeah. I mean, that’s right. And that’s so kind of you to say, Jess, because no, you’re right. You hadn’t mentioned it to me before. And I remember being so much an admiration of you, because when I had my first, and I, you know, six weeks postpartum, I would have just been proud to get out of bed in the morning and, and, and like fit into my, put on my leggings again. There was no way that I could have agreed to be on a stage and interview anybody at all. So. That’s amazing. But I think you’re right when all of a sudden you’re like, oh, I can talk about more than poopy diapers. And, and sleep schedules. And I, There’s something still going on in my brain there a lot. So. I know. I think that’s great. And I know you’re going to have a great adventure with the next kids. But you’re right in Iceland, I felt really fortunate because when I grew up in Canada, And I moved to Iceland in my 20s. Even though I moved because of my partner, who’s now my husband, we weren’t thinking about having children right away. But that visual, you know, a week or two weeks into my new job where the, she was the chair of the board of directors of the small software startup. And there she was nursing her baby while she was addressing a point of issue on the agenda. And nobody cared. Like it wasn’t, hey, this is great. And it wasn’t, it was just absolutely a non issue for everybody. And I that image stuck with me, you know, to this day, that was over 20 years ago saying, okay, this is if this is, you know, the weather can sometimes be dodgy in Iceland. But if this is the way that we are in society, then I feel like I’m okay with it.

**Jess:
So I think that it’s interesting that has, did you latch on to, okay, what is it about Iceland that makes women different? Like from that experience, because you’ve made that so much of your platform as first lady. One of the quotes that I’ve loved from you is like the role of being the spouse of the head of the state is not official in any sense. We haven’t been elected in any position and yet the influence we can make is very important if we choose to make it so. And you have definitely chosen to make it show. So with women and with writers and creatives, what was that journey like for you when you’re now first lady? Were you like, okay, I have to make something of it or was it more gradual?

**Eliza:
Well, you know, I’ve definitely always been interested in gender equality. I’ve definitely always considered myself a feminist. And the story of how my husband became president might take longer than you have in this podcast. But in a nutshell, it was the first time that he had run for elected office in his life. And he’s an academic by training. And a sort of contrivance of events to do with a political scandal meant that he was the pundit called on television when there was this constitutional crisis in Iceland. Right at the time that there was a presidential election. And people saw this guy on TV who knew a lot about the institution of the presidency and seemed like a smart, knowledgeable man. And they literally started calling our house and saying he should run for president. And so the journey from me being, you know, a freelance journalist and writer and, you know, mom with really young kids to becoming married to the president was about two months. From zero to that. So it was a really incredible story. And I guess it just led me to think, you know, in life we get… We have so many unexpected opportunities. And we don’t know what’s around the corner for us. And we don’t necessarily even control that. But what we do control is how we react to those moments. What we do control is the attitude that we have at those times. And I knew that I wanted to make the most of this unexpected opportunity because what an incredible honor and a privilege to find yourself in the situation to represent one’s country nationally on the global stage and to have an opportunity to kind of shape the dialogue a little bit. You know, not just about what a what a first lady is supposed to do, but in my case, I’m an immigrant to Iceland. So I speak the Icelandic language with an accent and I make mistakes. And that to me was also important to showcase a little bit of diversity within the country, to just remind people that people like me have important things to say as well. And so, you know, like I said, there’s no official position. There’s definitely, definitely no handbook on how to be a first lady. And I think, especially at the beginning, I always felt like I was kind of fumbling around in the dark a little bit. But I was always pretty clear that I really wanted to try to make the most of what I could with it. And learn along the way and really do my best so that when this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity is over, I can kind of look back and feel like I did the most from it and hopefully, you know, help to nudge things a little bit in the right direction.

**Jess:
Which you certainly have. And I know we were talking briefly before this of the next chapter, you know, later this year and what happens when you’re maybe not in this position anymore. What are, do you have thoughts or ideas around that? Are you looking forward to it? Is it bittersweet? What are your feelings?

**Eliza:
Yeah, so my husband’s term as president comes to an end this summer. And so, as you said, the next adventure awaits. And I don’t know if this is a kind of stereotypically female thing, but I feel like I want to plan. You know, I want to know exactly what’s coming around the corner. And I think often that I think if you’re a former president, people kind of give you all these opportunities and you think what’s going to happen. But I think if you’re a former first lady, you really, despite having gained a lot of experience and contacts and knowledge, you kind of really have to go out and seek that yourself. So I, you know, I’m continuing, I have another book that’s coming out next year, I can talk about a little bit more, got a couple of book ideas in the pipeline. And I’m also trying to do more public speaking engagements, not just to talk about, you know, I think people think that the sort of fairy tale story that I have of being a farm girl who ended up married to a president is a funny and interesting story. But really to remind people how we can, you know, embrace the chances that we have in life, how we can kind of make the most of positive changes and share my experience of that and also the experience of Iceland. Plus, I love, you know, it was like meeting you last year. I love going out and meeting people and talking to new people and traveling around. And so I’m really excited, excited and nervous about the future, which is, I guess, I suppose, a normal thing in life.

**Jess:
Yeah, absolutely. But I think that the mark that you’ve been able to make, particularly with writers, obviously this is a passion you have for yourself. You wrote a amazing nonfiction book, Secrets of the Sprakkar, which everyone needs to read. I’ve gifted it to so many people, but now you have a mystery book coming out, going into the fiction. So tell us, not just about that book, but also, I know for me as an author, I’ve had fiction ideas. I’ve had all these ideas and I’m just like, well, I can’t possibly do that because that’s not in my lane. And so how did you also realize? Cares. Like, this is a book I want to write. Let’s do it.

**Eliza:
Yeah, I mean, that’s a great, that’s a great way of putting it. I think maybe now after having these eight years of serving, serving as First Lady, I’m, again, with no rule book, I think, well, if there’s no rule book, I can’t break any rules. So, you know, there is no book about what kind of books I’m allowed to write, so. I’ll just write what I feel like writing. And when I finished Secrets of the Sprakkar, which, thank you, I had so much fun writing and talking. It’s kind of a love letter to Iceland a little bit, you know, and hopefully inspirational stories. And, you know, it’s a long process from handing in a manuscript when it comes out. And I got… Gotten in the routine of writing every day and I thought, if I don’t start something else now, I’ll never start again. Because it’s like, you know, you stop running in the race, you never start running again. And, and I thought, you know, I love murder mysteries. I used to love Agatha Christie when I was a kid and these kind of books. And I thought, why don’t I just see if I can do it and just try. And the hardest thing maybe was the fact that when you when you write nonfiction, as you will know, as well, you can write a book proposal and a couple of chapters and you sell a book proposal. And then you are contractually obligated to finish the darn book. But with fiction, nobody cares.

**Jess:
No one cares. You have to write the whole darn thing. Yeah.

**Eliza:
I know. And that I thought that really was the hardest for me. Because like so many people, I feel like I’m a busy person. And I’d sit there and think, do I really spend a whole morning on this when maybe nothing is going to come of it? I don’t know. And then I the only thing that really got me through that I tried to remind myself was that the one way that I could guarantee that no one was going to publish the book was if I never wrote it. And it sounds maybe simple or silly, but that was really what got me through. I thought I 100% know, you know, you miss 100% of the shots that you never take.

**Jess:
A hundred percent. And I think what you’re like, sometimes the motivation behind someone, there’s a deadline, you’re accountable to someone else. I have to get this book by this time or else I have to return the money that they gave me versus I have this creative idea. Uh, I want to put it out there, but it is all on me to do that. You have to tap into two completely different types of motivation in order to do that. And so talk to me about the Iceland writers retreat and yeah, where did it come about and what do you want to come of it in the future?

**Eliza:
So it’s great that you’re asking now because the end of April now it’s our 10th anniversary for this event that I founded with a friend of mine and I over a bottle of wine a long time ago. And we wanted to host an event for people who love to write and, and anybody who, you know, whether or not you’re an aspiring author, published author to someone who likes to keep a diary or whatever it is, come to Iceland and to Reykjavik, which is the world’s first non-native English speaking UNESCO city of literature. So a place where we love writers, we love creative types and authors come to this new inspiring environment, meet other people from all over the world who want to do the same kind of thing. Learn in small group workshops from really well-known authors. One of the people we have teaching this year is Jeannette Walls, for example, who wrote the Glass Castle, which was really famous.

**Jess:
One of my favorites.

**Eliza:
So she’s coming, but we change up the faculty every year. We’ve had Barbara Kingsolver before, Meg Walters coming too. Anyway, it’s just a lot of fun. So it’s kind of a mixture of these small group writing workshops on all different topics. And again, maximum 15 people. And then we introduce people to Iceland’s literary heritage. So people have a chance to, you know, go on a day tour and see geysers and hot springs, but the guide is also a writer and maybe we stop and do a reading and then we have a pub night. So there’s a really kind of, you know, you get a tourism experience that you wouldn’t get otherwise in terms of visiting the country.

**Jess:
And while we’re on this topic of tourism, this is off brand for the podcast, but I saw you wrote, was it a New York op-ed that was like, I mean, now I’m in Raleigh and there’s direct flights to Iceland. And so obviously tourism has always been strong, but for me, I’m just seeing, I’m like, I should go to Iceland soon. And you had some tips for people coming to Iceland for the first time. Can you share a couple of those?

**Eliza:
Yeah. I’m trying to remember what I wrote in those ones. You know what I always say is drink the tap water because we have the best tap water in the world. And I know that that’s maybe sounds silly, but it’s very sustainable and delicious.

**Jess:
Our producer is nodding his head right now. Cause he, when did you go to Iceland, Carson? You went two years ago. He’s like, yeah, the tap water was really good. Yeah. Good tap water.

**Eliza:
And I think, you know, especially for anybody, you know, for Americans visiting Iceland. The great thing about it is that it’s closer than the rest of Europe. You know, it’s… Easier to fly probably from New York to Iceland than it is to fly from New York to LA. The temperature, even in January, is warmer in Iceland than it is in New York. So it’s maybe not as cold as people think. And in the summertime, it doesn’t get warm. But I think that’s maybe a good thing with everything that’s going on. And you get this completely different environment with, you know, volcanoes, as we know, just to see from a distance, with waterfalls, with geysers and hot springs and black sand beaches. But in the world’s safest country, and in a country where most people speak excellent English. So the infrastructure to be able to go and have these experiences is really established. But you don’t have to go that far. And you get something completely different.

**Jess:
2025. After I have these babies, mark me down.

**Eliza:
As you know, if you need to breastfeed, you can breastfeed anywhere you want.

**Jess:
That’s what I’m saying is I’ll just bring them with me. I want to wrap with one of the parts of your book that I feel like stuck with me the most. And it was about like women in media or women in the spotlight. There’s a lot of conversation around, you know, representation and diversity. And that’s, you know, why I started Mic Drop Workshop was to get more women on stages. One thing that’s rarely talked about that you hit on that I think was so spot on is the lens of critique that we give women in these spots. Whether you’re a speaker, an anchor, a celebrity, whatever it might be. The vigor that we approach critiquing women who are in the spotlight is way different than how we critique men. And because of that, maybe, aggression or tenacity that we put behind it. A woman has to absolutely hit it out of the park to have that same reaction or rating as a man, which therefore will prevent women from applying for the TED Talk or applying for the job that is externally facing. Can you, I think it’s fascinating and I think it’s so true, but I’d love to hear that from your point of view.

**Eliza:
Yeah, no, I absolutely agree with that. And I think, you know, and they, you know, we see that, say, with job applications that women only tend to apply for a job if they absolutely meet every single qualification there, whereas men might say, you know, I’m good enough. This is this is close and I’ll be great. And in the same when we’re asked to do things. And I in Iceland, for example, when they have panels on, say, like a political talk show or something, there always would be gender balance on the panel. That’s something people really think about. But often it’s harder to find women because they’ll call you the day before and say, can you come on tomorrow and talk about, you know, Social Security? And then we’ll say, oh, I don’t, my PhD isn’t in Social Security. I don’t know. I don’t know enough about it. And, you know, if you think about it, the person wouldn’t have asked you to be on the program if they didn’t think that you could handle the questions. But, you know, sometimes you’ll call a guy and they say, I’ll just Google two or three stories. And, yeah, it’s good enough. I can. And it probably is good enough. And maybe the woman would be critiqued even more. But it’s something that I personally try to remind myself when I’m asked to do something, when I’m asked to deliver a keynote address at a conference or opening remarks somewhere or appear in an interview. People, you know, I’ve always been very honest about my background and my experience. So anybody who is asking me to do something like that and knows that background or experience, they don’t know something false about me. And therefore, they trust that I can do it. So, of course, why wouldn’t I trust that I can do it?

**Jess:
Do you find though, like… How do we change the narrative around? How we view women in those. Spots. I mean, they’re like, I find that with Mic Drop Workshop. It’s like, I can help women have the courage to apply for the job, courage to apply for the TED Talk. But sometimes it’s harder to change who’s at the table, who’s ranking the speakers, and the lens in which they see women. I mean, it’s not a magic wand, but probably a bigger conversation around just how we view women.

**Eliza:
I think you’re right. No, you’re absolutely, you know, it’s a couple of things. We need to develop a thick skin while we’re doing that and know that, you know, someone’s going to critique. My outfit rather than the content of what I’m saying. I don’t control how they’re going to react to things. I just do the best that’s possible. I think we can all stand up for each other by highlighting the constructive, positive things that people are doing as well. And just by being really aware of the double standards and the prejudices that we all have within us to try to be aware of that and prevent it from happening even more. And, you know, there’s a huge range of that. Obviously, there are situations, say, online when women will deliver a speech or do an event and they’re actually attacked or, you know, it’s misogyny and in some cases, you know, criminal behavior. And that’s kind of an extreme there. But I mean, I’m talking about. More of the microaggressions. I was at a conference to sort of digress with a small story. I was at a conference in Vienna, Austria, at the beginning of March this year for International Women’s Day, again, to deliver a keynote address. And they had at the end a podcaster from the country. Who interviews only men and asks them only questions that women get in interviews just to really highlight these challenges. And so she interviewed the male president of Austria, who’s 80 years old and said, you know, you’re doing a great job as head of state. How do you manage that work-life balance? And he’s like, what? And she interviewed a head of a labor union or a huge company and said, you know, you’re responsible for this massive turnover each year and these hundreds of employees. Like, what’s your pep up routine in the mornings? And the guy’s like looking at her. And all the women said, of course, these are the kinds of questions we get, you know. When you kind of turn these assumptions on their heads a little bit, it just sticks in our minds, I think, and hopes, you know, reminds us not to do that anymore.

**Jess:
Absolutely. I mean, we’re in the thick of March Madness right now as this is being recorded. And Obviously, Caitlin Clark, the Iowa, I’m not sure if you’re following, but she has just been absolutely dominating the women’s tournament. And in an interview, it was about her not smiling and should she smile more? And I’m like, tell me what man has been asked about smiling for their sport at all? So, yeah, and I know that now, I mean, my husband, who works with me in my business, I mean, has never been asked how he’s balanced having our kids and work when we try to split as much of the caretaking and household work as possible. One of the stories that I have, this was before we had kids, you know, we traveled around in an Airstream for about three years. I’m not sure if I told you that. We were in an RV. And the amount of times that I got. Asked. What does your husband do that allows you all to, you know, do this trip? He works with me on my business that I started.

**Eliza:
And you’re granting him permission.

**Jess:
Exactly, exactly.

**Eliza:
Well, you know, most of the times that I’m traveling alone, I get asked who’s looking after the kids when I’m not with my husband. So who do you think’s looking after them?

**Jess:
Exactly. I get that question all the time. And I think that just… Talking about it, being more aware. And I’m in the spirit of calling people up who ask that question. I think there’s polite ways to do it that you don’t have to be aggressive or mean about it, but just. Letting them know.

**Eliza:
I agree with you. And I’ve said to interviewers sometimes, you know, oh, that’s an interesting question. I’m curious to know how my husband responded to it when you asked him the same question.

**Jess:
I love it. Love it. What is one piece of advice you might have for a woman out there who is either looking to write her first book, break into the speaking industry, looking to start using her words for a bigger purpose?

**Eliza:
Well, I think that’s wonderful. I guess the piece of advice is that, you know, just to remember that you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. It’s always, always better to try. Even if you don’t succeed that time, you’ll have learned something and you’ll have an even better chance the next time around.

**Jess:
And you can use it for the future. Everyone, go get Death of a Diplomat. I cannot wait to read it.

**Eliza:
In a year. You’ve got to wait a year.

**Jess:
I was going to say, but we can pre-order it, right?

**Eliza:
I don’t even think so yet. It’s like not even that late, but it’s coming. It’s coming.

**Jess:
It’s coming. Well, what is the best place for people to follow you so we can stay updated on what you’re doing?

**Eliza:
Yeah, that’s the best way I would say. Probably Instagram where I’m Eliza Jean Reid. And I guess you can put that out.

**Jess:
Oh, I’ll link it. Yeah.

**Eliza:
I’m also in theory on LinkedIn, although I’m a little bit of a slacker there. But you can find me, Eliza Reid, on LinkedIn as well. And Facebook and X. I guess it’s called X.

**Jess:
I know. I’m like all the things.

**Eliza:
I would argue the most fun content is on Instagram.

**Jess:
Yes, definitely. Definitely. She’s a fun follow. Eliza, thank you so much. I’m so glad to be able to talk to you again. And hopefully I’ll either see you on stage here in the States or at your writer’s retreat in Iceland.

**Eliza:
That sounds terrific. Thanks so much for having me on the show, Jess.

**Jess:
Thanks for listening to Amplify. If you are a fan of the show, show us some podcast love by giving us a rating and review. And give us a follow @micdropworkshop and @jessekstrom. This episode was edited and produced by Earfluence and I’m Jess Ekstrom, your host. Remember that you deserve the biggest stage. So let’s find out how to get you there. I’ll see you again soon.