Stop Giving Women Toxic Advice | Amplify Podcast

Written by Lauren | Jun 10, 2025 8:00:00 AM

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Sarah thoroughly examines why unsolicited advice isn’t just annoying – it can actually reinforce power imbalances, stifle confidence, and make women feel like they’re always playing catch-up. You’ll hear about the fascinating studies showing who gives and receives advice, and how the act of giving advice can fuel a sense of power in the giver, often at the expense of the receiver.

OTHER TOPICS DISCUSSED:

[dsm_icon_list list_vertical_alignment=”flex-start” list_space_between=”16px” _builder_version=”4.27.4″ _module_preset=”default” text_font=”|600|||||||” text_font_size=”18px” text_line_height=”1.5em” custom_padding=”10px|1%|45px|1%|false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”][dsm_icon_list_child text=”The %22vitamin metaphor%22 for advice: good in moderation, toxic in excess.” font_icon=”N||divi||400″ icon_color=”#E09466″ icon_font_size=”18px” _builder_version=”4.27.4″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”||||false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”][/dsm_icon_list_child][dsm_icon_list_child text=”Why %22women don’t need more mentorship, they need more sponsorship.%22″ font_icon=”N||divi||400″ icon_color=”#E09466″ icon_font_size=”18px” _builder_version=”4.27.4″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”||||false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”][/dsm_icon_list_child][dsm_icon_list_child text=”How to offer feedback that genuinely helps, not harms.” font_icon=”N||divi||400″ icon_color=”#E09466″ icon_font_size=”18px” _builder_version=”4.27.4″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”||||false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”][/dsm_icon_list_child][dsm_icon_list_child text=”The surprising reason why receiving no feedback is worse than tough feedback.” font_icon=”N||divi||400″ icon_color=”#E09466″ icon_font_size=”18px” _builder_version=”4.27.4″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”||||false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”][/dsm_icon_list_child][dsm_icon_list_child text=”Why the idea that you %22need a team%22 to be a %22real%22 entrepreneur is a myth.” font_icon=”N||divi||400″ icon_color=”#E09466″ icon_font_size=”18px” _builder_version=”4.27.4″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”||||false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”][/dsm_icon_list_child][dsm_icon_list_child text=”How to develop %22advice literacy%22 and %22eat the fish, spit out the bones.%22″ font_icon=”N||divi||400″ icon_color=”#E09466″ icon_font_size=”18px” _builder_version=”4.27.4″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”||||false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”][/dsm_icon_list_child][dsm_icon_list_child text=”Turning negative comments and internet trolls into evidence of your reach.” font_icon=”N||divi||400″ icon_color=”#E09466″ icon_font_size=”18px” _builder_version=”4.27.4″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”||||false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”][/dsm_icon_list_child][dsm_icon_list_child text=”The power of asking %22Do you want to talk about this, or do you want me to hate your enemies?%22″ font_icon=”N||divi||400″ icon_color=”#E09466″ icon_font_size=”18px” _builder_version=”4.27.4″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”||||false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”][/dsm_icon_list_child][dsm_icon_list_child text=”How to stay rooted in your values and beliefs, even when the world is throwing %22always%22 and %22never%22 at you.” font_icon=”N||divi||400″ icon_color=”#E09466″ icon_font_size=”18px” _builder_version=”4.27.4″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”||||false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”][/dsm_icon_list_child][/dsm_icon_list]

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ABOUT OUR GUEST

Dr. Sarah Glova, keynote speaker, writer, and researcher

Dr. Sarah Glova is a keynote speaker, writer, and researcher known for her insights on communication, leadership, and personal development. Her work challenges conventional thinking and empowers individuals to navigate complex professional landscapes with confidence and clarity. Her TEDx talk, “How to Achieve Your Goals with a Single Page,” has garnered over 200,000 views, offering a powerful framework for focus and simplification.

RESOURCES & LINKS

Watch Sarah’s TEDx Talk – “How to Achieve Your Goals with a Single Page”

Amplify with Jess is produced by Walk West and brought to you by Mic Drop Workshop.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Sarah Glova:

One of the reasons that I think I got some really angry comments as we do mm-hmm. When we post spicy things online Yeah. Is people were really upset because they thought I was saying, never give advice. Never. Yeah. Or you don’t. I think especially a lot of men thought that. I was saying, you have no advice worth sharing.

Mm. Your expertise isn’t worth sharing. Yeah. Which isn’t what I meant. I was really trying to highlight that if we look at the research, the power dynamics of who gives and receives advice mm-hmm. Match a lot of the challenges that we’re already seeing in the workplace and can and can make those worse.

Yeah. And so we should be aware of the volume of advice and we should think about other strategies that might be more helpful. And so I can talk about some of those. But I think emphasizing that is really important. And the easy metaphor is vitamins are really good for you. They can be really helpful, and if you have too many, they will kill you.

Jess Ekstrom:

Welcome back to Amplify with Jess Ekstrom, where we amplify your ideas, your influence, and your income. Today’s episode might challenge the way you think about advice, especially the kind of advice women get constantly from every angle. I know I do. My guest is my good friend, Dr. Sarah Glova, keynote speaker, writer, researcher, and unapologetic truth teller.

Her viral talk, stop Giving Women advice is backed by science, and when I saw the title, I knew I had to have her on the show. Sarah breaks Down Why unsolicited advice. Isn’t just annoying. It can actually reinforce power imbalances, stifle confidence, and make women feel like they’re always just catching up.

We also dig into how to give feedback. That actually helps why we confuse visibility with success and how to stay rooted in your values when people are throwing advice at you, like confetti at the end of an HES tour concert. Her TEDx talk, how to achieve your goals with a Single Page has reached over 200,000 views on YouTube, and is a masterclass in simplifying what matters and staying focused even when the world keeps piling on the noise.

So Sarah’s advice, revelation started about 10 years ago when Sarah was a new wife, new mom, and new business owner. Just trying to figure it all out.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

I was just flooded with advice and I noticed that I was getting a lot of advice. From men. Mm-hmm. And just naturally, I’m a, I’m a researcher at heart and so I started looking into the research and I found this really interesting piece of research about upward advice transmission.

And it looked at, if you have men and women and you look at who gives advice more, it’s a really hard thing to study. Like, how are you gonna go around and track who’s giving advice? Mm-hmm. But they looked at the power dynamics where if you imagine a male boss with female and male, uh, employees. The men are more likely to give advice up.

Mm-hmm. So to recommend something to their boss in a way that’s advice. Yeah. Women are less likely to do that. Hmm. But then you get women who are in a position of power. And men are likely to give that advice up, but women aren’t. So they’re hearing a lot from men. From men. When I read that in the research, I think what struck me is the idea that if you are a woman and you’re in kind of any position that you could be getting advice from just everywhere.

I read another piece of research that showed that when you give advice, you get a sense of power. I’m gonna do the Amy Cuddy pose. Yes. Like a sense of power and influence. Mm-hmm. Even if that advice isn’t taken. Mm. So just the act of giving advice gives you that like thrill of power. Yeah. And when I read that, it was like, okay, so.

There are a lot of men who are walking around with this sense of power, this sense of influence, it’s probably fueling their confidence, whereas women are on the receiving end of this. On the receiving end of it. Yeah. So much more. Yeah. And honestly it made me really angry.

Jess Ekstrom:

Yeah. Like I, I think that’s why it was kind of a spicier take for me.

’cause I, I got really frustrated with it. Yeah. And you took a stance, you said, men stop giving women advice and I. Uh, that we had a guest on here, Lauren Kaylee. She’s like, amazing LinkedIn Top Voice, and she’s a presence expert. And we talked about something and she goes, women don’t need more mentorship.

They need more sponsorship. Which is like, don’t tell me, uh, what I’m doing wrong, what I could be doing better. Give me access to resources. Yeah. Make the introduction. Make the introduction. Do like, give me the funding, like the studies are clear that we’re good at it. Yeah. So stop giving me advice. No more mentorship.

We need more sponsorship. A hundred percent. What, um, with your career path, I mean, you are an entrepreneur. Researcher, uh, you are a professor. You speak at all these amazing companies. What has it been like, like that path for you? Uh, and doing a lot of it solo as well? Yeah, which is what I want to talk about.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

It’s been, it’s been a really fun path, but I think. It’s not as, uh, I don’t wanna say as common. ’cause I, I mean, I feel like I know so many, especially amazing women mm-hmm. Who are doing similar things, but I don’t think that it’s as easy for people to understand quickly. And maybe that’s where the advice comes from.

Mm-hmm. It’s like people hear a little bit about what you’re doing and they’re like, you know what, you know what you should do? You know what you should do, you know what you should do.

Jess Ekstrom:

I had a, uh, like way back in the day, I created some blog post when people were like still blogging. It was like five things, not to say to an entrepreneur and.

It was like, you should, that’s it. Da da. Yeah. The amount of people that were like, oh. Especially in my Headbands of Hope days, it was like, you should go on the Ellen show. And I’m like, oh, I, I’d never thought of that.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

I’ve never thought of that. Let me call Ellen right now and see, which I’ll only do because you mentioned it.

Yes. If you hadn’t unlocked that for me. Yeah. See, I’m feeling spicy about this already. Thought about

Jess Ekstrom:

Yeah, I know. Me too. I’m like my, we were talking about aura rings. My aura rings probably like breathe or it’s like you should get into target and it’s like, yes. Yeah, I am already feeling like behind. Yes.

And the advice telling me what I should be doing is amplifying that.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

And I don’t think you have to be an entrepreneur to feel this. I mean, anyone who’s received advice as a mom. Yeah. Right. Like, oh, your kid isn’t sleeping. You should, you should.

Jess Ekstrom:

Okay. But also there are experiences that we have that are worth sharing.

Thousand percent. Um, so what is. A good way that you feel like to give advice?

Dr. Sarah Glova:

Yeah,

Jess Ekstrom:

that’s a great question because you do wanna share your knowledge. Yeah. But you don’t wanna make someone feel behind or just again, just be a fire hose of information at them. Yeah.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

You don’t wanna should them too much.

Yeah. I think one of the reasons that I think I got some really angry comments as we do when we post spicy things online is people were really upset because they thought I was saying never. Give advice. Never. Yeah. Or you don’t have, I think especially a lot of men thought that I was saying, you have no advice worth sharing.

Mm. Your expertise isn’t worth sharing. Yeah. Which isn’t what I meant. I was really trying to highlight that. If we look at the research. The power dynamics of who gives and receives advice mm-hmm. Match a lot of the challenges that we’re already seeing in the workplace and can and can make those worse.

Yeah. And so we should be aware of the volume of advice and we should think about other strategies that might be more helpful. And so I can talk about some of those, but I think. Emphasizing that is really important. And the easy metaphor is vitamins are really good for you. They can be really helpful and if you have too many, they will kill you.

Jess Ekstrom:

That is So Jason flagged that, that, that, I think that’s the intro. Yeah. It’s just, yeah, it’s.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

It’s not that advice is bad, it’s that if we’re more aware of what advice does to us, yeah. We’re gonna be so much more careful. We’re gonna, it’s just the intentionality. It’s a choice. When we’re having a conversation and I’m talking to a new mom and she mentions a challenge that she’s having, of course I wanna help.

Mm-hmm. And what might come to mind first is let me share some advice. Mm-hmm. Based on what I know. But if I’m aware because of this research of what that might do, how that might impact her confidence, the sense of power it’s gonna give me and the judgment that she’s gonna feel on the receiving end. I might make another choice.

Jess Ekstrom:

Have you read, uh, your kid might be too old for it now, but the kid’s book. Um, the Rabbit listened.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

I don’t think so.

Jess Ekstrom:

Oh my God. It’s like one of those books that is like, not for the kid, it’s for me. It’s like watching Inside Out and like the kids like it.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

Yes. Because it’s funny and you’re like, this is, this is what, what my therapistsaid.

Jess Ekstrom:

Yes, I sob when I that book. And what do you do with an idea? Two of the best kids’ books for anyone listening. But this book, the Rabbit listened. It’s about. This girl who built this, uh, you know, tower out of blocks, it fell down and all these animals come in one by one trying to fix it, trying to get mad, trying to make her laugh, trying to whatever.

And then finally the rabbit came in and didn’t do anything, but just stayed there and listened. And I was like. Oh my gosh, because I do this even with my kids or my business or whatever. I’m like, well, let me solve it. Let me get mad with you. Let me ask you questions. Let me give you advice. It’s like, no, the rabbit listened and that’s all that they needed.

Yeah, and I think the other thing too that I find with advice when you say like the vitamins will kill you, is asking if they want it. Yeah. Um, this has been like a marriage thing for me and Jake, where literally like if I am like bitching about something or he is, and we have learned to be like, do you want help?

Yeah. Or do you just want to talk about this?

Dr. Sarah Glova:

We have one that Matt, and I’ll say. Which is are, are you looking for? Mm-hmm. Advice? Do you wanna talk it through? Are you just looking to vent? Do you just want me to listen or do you want me to hate your enemies? Yes. That’s a good option. Do you want me to hate your enemies?

And I’m really good at hating enemies. Yes. So I’m always like, please that option. I’ve got some stuff to say. So good. But it’s true. ’cause sometimes I do at the rabbit listened. I just want you to listen. Sometimes I want you to be angry with me. Yes. And then sometimes there are times where I want your help.

Yeah. I want your advice. Yeah.

Jess Ekstrom:

And uh, that happened with my sister the other week. Like she was really upset about something and she called me and I, in hindsight, this was really stupid, but I was like in the middle of something and I just tried to, um, like play, like devil’s advocate, which I like, never tried, I never do.

And she was like, I really just wanted you to be angry with me instead of like. Telling me why this is logical. Yeah. Like why? And I was like, you’re so right. But I’m so glad that you told me that.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

Well, and there’s a great point. The power dynamics here too are a challenge because it can be really helpful to ask somebody, do you want advice?

Do you want me to hate your enemies? Mm-hmm. Do you wanna just vent? That’s something that I can ask Matt and I trust that he’s gonna be able to tell me.

Jess Ekstrom:

Yeah.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

And. He’s not concerned that I might wanna give advice. He’s not gonna pick that option because he wants me to be able to do that. If you have a boss that you have a new relationship with and she asks you that question, the question is, is there enough trust there already?

Yeah. Have we built up that trust equity in a way? And so sometimes in new relationships we have to be careful with that question. Yeah. Because the person might not be comfortable saying what they really think yet.

Jess Ekstrom:

The power dynamic when it comes to advice. Is interesting because, um, or advice or just feedback, something I was thinking about the other day, um, as I just got like this first round of edits back for my book, which I’m sorry.

Thank you. That’s so exciting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. What a great stage. Um. I think about how, uh, better I am this time receiving this like first draft, which is like notoriously the most red line you’re ever going to get. It’s just like bleeding. Um, versus five years ago when I turned in chasing the bright side, I literally like was.

I mean, had to be, have a weighted blanket because I was so just torn up from the feedback and I was like, wow, how far I’ve come in five years. Like why, what is kind of the takeaway that I’ve, mm-hmm. How am I now much better at receiving feedback and advice? Because I’ve learned that, I think what’s scarier to me, like than receiving bad feedback is receiving no feedback.

Mm-hmm. And. Just not getting it. Yeah. Because there’s been so many times where I’m like, that call went great, or That meeting went so good. I definitely got it. And I’m, you know, don’t hear from them hear ever again. And why? And we don’t know why. Why, yeah. Way worse. Yes. Way worse. I’m like, I would rather hear it from you and maybe it sings a little bit, but like, no, then not get any feedback.

At all.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

A hundred percent. I have a workshop on giving and receiving feedback. And it looks at, if you look at folks who are really good at giving feedback, giving feedback, and if you look at folks who are really good at receiving feedback, what are the traits that they have in common? Um, and what are the skills that they have in common?

And it’s all things that you can build. It’s not a trait like I have blue eyes. It’s a trait like I am resilient. Hmm. So I think when you tell that story, what happened in, in five years, one is the, the resilience, of course. Like you get. Better at hearing negative things. Mm-hmm. And then kind of recovering and saying, okay, that’s gonna make me better.

Let me keep going. Another trait is that growth mindset trait. And so do we hear this feedback and feel like it’s saying, oh, I’m, I’m not a writer, this isn’t good enough. Or is it saying, okay, this draft isn’t ready yet. Yes. So it’s introducing that growth mindset piece. And so those are two of the things for, for receiving feedback that you can absolutely get better at another take that you have.

Jess Ekstrom:

Uh, that maybe isn’t as spicy, but it is something that I think deserves to be talked about is this idea that in order to be this like sexy hotshot entrepreneur, it’s like here’s my team and here’s our office. Yeah. And here’s like our company retreat that we’re all on. And it’s like, it makes us believe that in order to be successful, we need to have a team.

Yeah. And your opinion is. You don’t? Yeah. Tell me about that.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

I, I love talking about this. And for folks who aren’t in entrepreneurship, it really relates to anyone who feels like they have to show up and have certain things in place before they’re considered real. And that’s a real entrepreneur. It’s a real writer.

It’s a real podcaster. Like, put whatever noun you want there, but what makes it real. And for entrepreneurship a lot of times. People judge you by whether or not you’re scaling, whether or not you have employees. I remember when I first started my company, I came from academia, so I didn’t know a lot of the terms.

Like I remember pretending to know what a p and l was.

Jess Ekstrom:

Yeah. Still don’t remember that. Yeah, right. The numbers.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

The numbers, but somebody said. The term lifestyle business. And it reminded me of when I was a kid and I watched Hocus Pocus for the first time. Mm-hmm. And they kept talk, talking about how a virgin had to light the black flame candle.

A virgin has to light the black flame candle. I was a kid, I didn’t know what a virgin was. Yeah. But the way they kept saying it, I was like, I hope I’m not like clearly a virgin has to. I hope I’m not one of those. Yeah. In the way that this person was saying lifestyle business, I was like, I hope I’m not one of those.

It was the same tone, and then when I learned what it was, it was like, okay, so I won’t be that.

Jess Ekstrom:

I’m not, and so they were saying lifestyle business. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

In a, in a bad way. In a negative way. Okay. Like, it was this, this label that some businesses had that disqualified them from being a part of the entrepreneurship conversation.

Jess Ekstrom:

Interesting.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

And I, I just remember at that point, like almost like

Jess Ekstrom:

equating it to a hobby.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

Yeah. Okay. Although I didn’t know enough about what it was to know what they were equating it to, I think that that’s maybe what they were getting at. But I just remember being, I was so, uh, susceptible at that time mm-hmm.

To other people’s opinions about what real entrepreneurship was. ’cause I was coming from academia, I didn’t know what I was doing. And so I interpreted that pretty quickly when I did the research and saw, okay, lifestyle business, it’s a person who’s building a business for themselves. They’re not looking to scale and sell.

They’re looking to build kind of their own brand based around them as a person. I don’t wanna be that. Mm-hmm. And so I entered into this insane like girl boss era where I was scaling. I hired employees. I took on bigger and bigger projects. Things that I really didn’t enjoy. Yeah. Because I was trying to be real.

And it was a really painful few years and I’m so glad I went through it. But I wouldn’t wanna do it again, and I wouldn’t wanna wish it on anyone. And it’s, it relates to this feedback conversation because when we hear things from folks mm-hmm. How do we decide? What to take on. Mm-hmm. What to hear and say, okay, this is, this is for me, [00:17:00] and what to just let pass us by.

There’s the great southern phrase of like, eat the fish, spit out the bones.

Jess Ekstrom:

Yeah.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

How can I better learn to like take what I need and ignore what I don’t? Yes. I call it advice literacy now. Mm. So media literacy. We know that when we’re hearing news and we’re hearing information, we should be careful to think about the source, what other intentions that outlet might have.

Why, why we don’t apply that same things to advice. I’m not sure.

Jess Ekstrom:

It’s really interesting too that you say that because like I always think it’s really funny and I know you’re familiar with like internet trolls as well, where, you know, I have met them. Yes. Let’s say, yeah, let’s say I, you know, post something that’s like, here’s um, the orange juice I drink every morning.

Someone out there will be like, I hate oranges. Yes. And it’s like, well then this. Post isn’t for you, but I don’t know why there’s such a culture on the internet of like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna stop my day.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

Yeah.

Jess Ekstrom:

And I’m gonna write on someone’s [00:18:00] thing as to why like, this doesn’t apply to me. Yes. And the fact that some people go on the internet with this like blanketed approach, that it is built and custom tailored for them.

For them,

Dr. Sarah Glova:

yeah.

Jess Ekstrom:

Is just absolute like, shit show. Excuse my French, but like, yeah. It. Is crazy to me. And then the thing that I don’t like about it is that people like that prevent great people from sharing what they know and sharing things because they wanna avoid the negative. Yes, exactly.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

Yeah. I hate that.

I hate it to, and I have grown to have a thicker skin, but just naturally, I mean, of

Jess Ekstrom:

course it, it’s like it doesn’t matter who you’re just like, I don’t like that

Dr. Sarah Glova:

feel. I don’t that it doesn’t feel good. I could tell you right now what the negative comments on my TEDx video are.

Jess Ekstrom:

Isn’t that such a bummer?

Yes. Which is crazy ’cause it has over two H hundred thousand views, which I actually wanna talk about that. And people love it. But you remember, I remember the negatives. The

Dr. Sarah Glova:

negatives, yeah. And I don’t, I don’t want to, it’s the free space in your head. And I learned [00:19:00] early on, ’cause I, I, I cared a lot about.

Bringing this TEDx into the world and I wanted it to be viewed. And so I did some research. What’s the um, name of your TED Talk? Yeah. It’s how to achieve your goals with a Single Page. Yes. And it was so much fun to do and I’d wanted to do it for a really long time, and it was just, it was a dream and I put a lot of work into helping it get seen.

Mm-hmm. And one of the things that I learned early on when I was talking to somebody about what does well on YouTube, they said when you start to get views outside your circle. You’re gonna start getting negative comments. Mm. So try to interpret that as a good sign.

Jess Ekstrom:

Oh my gosh.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

So helpful. Right? That is so helpful.

I love it. So, and so now when I see that first negative comment, I still don’t like it. It still hurts my feelings a little bit. I can remember it, but

Jess Ekstrom:

also there is a part of me, it’s evidence that it is being seen. Yes. And I’m like, yes. Yes. Because of course. Your mom is gonna be like, this is the best thing ever.

Yes, you are the best thing ever. And my friend from high school who still follows, gonna be like, wow, love to see this [00:20:00] Sarah. Right. But when it But a troll finds you like Larry in Nebraska, that you’re like, wow, you saw this and it struck so much of a chord in you that you took the time to tell me that.

To tell me crap. You made you stupid.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

Thank you. Yeah, thank you. My gosh. And my thank you for the view. Yes. ’cause I need that too. So that was, that was really helpful as a reframe. And I think to point to like your five year difference of like the feedback you received on your first book and the feedback now.

Mm-hmm. Like, it’s not that it, the goal is not to not feel it. I’m not a robot. Yeah. But if I can pick myself up a little faster, ignore it a little faster, that’s what I’m working toward. Yes. And I feel like I’m, I’m definitely, how do you

Jess Ekstrom:

decide what to. Oh, that’s feedback that like, I’m gonna take that and make a change versus like doesn’t,

Dr. Sarah Glova: yeah.

We talked a few minutes ago. It’s like, okay, so Sarah is helping me understand that advice might not be good. What are my other decisions? And so this is what I look for when I’m trying to decide what’s for me. And it’s also what I recommend that people try to do if they’re looking for an alternative to advice.

Mm-hmm. There’s a couple factors for. Good advice and good advice is really just good feedback. So advice can be pretty general. I can give anyone advice, right? I could go walk down the hallway and say, oh, hey, person in this office, did you know that light bulb, you know, actually heard, right? I can give advice at any time.

Good feedback. Is performance based, timely and relevant. Hold on, say that again. Performance based. Mm-hmm. Timely and relevant. Okay, so performance based. I’m not talking about you, Jess. I’m talking about. Microphone etiquette. Mm, right? Yes. Timely. It’s something that you can still take action on. If you’re my friend and we’re having lunch and there’s broccoli in my teeth.

Yeah. The nice thing to do is to just look me in the eye, not draw attention to it, be polite. The kind thing to do is be like, Hey, Sarah, you got some broccoli in your Yeah, yeah. What wouldn’t be helpful is if six months later I had a performance review with you and you were like, so sometimes, oh my gosh, you have broccoli.

I literally, I’m like. Just slow death. Yeah. So timely. Yes. So waiting until a performance review to like stack all the negative feedback. That’s terrible. That’s not it. Yeah. So performance based. Timely and then relevant. Mm-hmm. Is it relevant? Yeah. Do, is this something that you’re working on? If you have feedback for me about how to do better at home manicures, like I’m not your girl.

Don’t care. Yeah. It’s not, that’s not to say that that’s not helpful information. That you’re not an expert on it. That there might not be people in the world who need to hear that. Mm-hmm. That if I applied it, it would work for me if I wanted to do, that’s not relevant to me right now. Yeah. And so. A good leader, a good friend, a good coach knows you enough to know what would be relevant.

And that’s why it’s so hard to give good feedback to somebody that you don’t have a relationship with, which is why we should be really careful when we’re trying to give advice out in the world. And we meet somebody at the gym and they make a side comment and we’re like, oh, have you [00:23:00] tried? Have you tried this?

Yeah, stop. Yeah,

Jess Ekstrom:

that literally happened to me yesterday at the gym. Um, my, I like, you know, scanned in my card and the. Guy behind the counter was like, oh, your mom. My mom goes to the same gym. Your mom came here. Is she so proud of you? She gave me a copy of your book. I’m like, oh my God, mom, you’re like embarrassing me.

I love it so much. But I, my mom and I are like, love her best friends, but of course in the moment I’m like, I’m gonna have a talking to with her. Like, I can’t believe she’s just, yeah. Yeah. And just kinda had that banter and then he came up to me and I get it. But later and was like, just know that like your mom is like gonna be, you know, your best person, da da.

I’m like

Dr. Sarah Glova:

trying to mute my face from the camera ’cause I’m gonna roll my eyes. Yeah. It’s not that, that he’s, I’m sure he’s great. I’m sure he’s lovely. Yeah. And it’s, it’s not on him. It’s just such a reflection of what we’re talking about here. Like he heard you say that and decided [00:24:00] I’m gonna help. In this situation and make sure she knows that her mom, of

Jess Ekstrom:

course, you know that your mom

Dr. Sarah Glova:

meant

Jess Ekstrom:

well.

Like, and if he, like, if he knew more about my life and knew that like, oh, my mom is literally my best friend in the world. Isn’t your book dedicated to her? Yes. It’s dedicated to her. Like if they knew that, uh, then we wouldn’t be having Yes. This conversation outside of the gym right now. And so it goes to your like giving advice and feedback to people that you don’t deeply know and, you know, in mic drop workshop, like, um, when I do get the chance to do one-on-one coaching through Mic Drop Academy.

And I get them on a call. I’m not like, okay, here’s how to do it. Right. I first ask them, what do you want outta speaking?

Dr. Sarah Glova:

Yeah.

Jess Ekstrom:

Some people want a lifestyle business. Yep. Some people are like, I want to be the freaking next Mel Robbins. Yep. And some people are like, I want this to like funnel into my coaching.

’cause coaching is what I love, but I can’t possibly give advice without knowing that. Right. You know, in the beginning. And that’s that relevant piece. Yeah. So what. Advice, but there’s a lot of like women who listen to this show who are looking to just maybe like, I think one of the things I love about you is just how bullish you are and like unapologetically, but yet you’re still respected, um, as a thought leader and as a speaker and as like a professor.

How do you balance like staying true to what you believe is right and your values. Mm-hmm. While also making sure that you’re being seen the way you wanna be seen.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

Yeah, that’s a great question. And honestly, I think it fits with our conversation so far. Something I decided really early on is that I didn’t wanna be an always or never person.

So an always or never is, you should always do this, you should never do this. Mm-hmm. And the reason I wanted to get away from that, I started my career teaching technical communication at NC State Go Pack. I had to say it, and that meant I was teaching writing to engineers, basically, and engineers famously, overall, that was not many engineers’ favorite class.

Mm-hmm. They were not like, yes, I finally get to take writing this semester. Yes. It could be like Shakespeare. Yeah. Yeah. And at first I was trying to do the same thing that I saw many colleagues in that field doing, which is kind of being like, you have to take your medicine. It was very like, you might not like it, but you’d need it.

And so learn it and then. The textbook was really interesting to me. I thought it was great, but I teach it. Yeah, of course. I think it’s interesting, it’s written for people who like communication. I noticed my students weren’t vibing with it, and I just got really curious. Turns out they care a lot about their careers.

They wanted to be successful and they were willing to learn about the topic, but they didn’t feel like it was gonna help them with their careers. They didn’t see the connection. They’re reading this communications textbook about like theories of why people understand more information when you have headings.

That wasn’t as relevant to them. Yeah. And so I ended up bringing a bunch of engineers into my class and like positioning them in the front of class and being like, will you tell the students. If you write at work, and the engineer would be like, I write at work, and the other engineer students would be like, oh, they do it.

It applies to me. Yeah. Yeah. And then I would ask the engineer, like, can you tell them what kinds of things you write at work and what would be helpful? And she would like explain. And then I would work with my students on building those skills. So it was the same kinds of lessons, but I made sure it was relevant to them first.

And when I did that, I noticed that I was getting away from the textbook a little bit. Hmm. Because the textbook would say things like, you know, never have a email that’s longer than blah, blah, blah. And it’s like, well, but what it, you know, or always make sure you start your presentations with dah, dah. And it’s like, well, what?

Mm-hmm. So allowing for some of that nuance and having that curiosity. Made sure that I could connect with my students and and give them information in a way that they could understand. Yes. And it changed that course and it has since changed the trajectory of my career. ’cause that’s like my mission.

Jess Ekstrom:

Yeah. That is beautiful. And it reminds me of another guest we had on here, Brit Barron. And she is, if you, I will give you her book ’cause it is so good. It’s called, do You Still Talk to Grandma? And it’s about how to have conversations with people we might not agree with. Yeah. And one of the things that she says.

Is like we all really want cognitive closure. And we want to say, this is right, this is wrong. This is what I believe, this is what I don’t believe. Mm-hmm. And of course, like politically that’s happening, religion. Mm-hmm. But also just social media like. Um, the things that go quote unquote viral are like these certainty.

Yeah. Like, always do this, never do that and never eat this. Yes. Always eat this. Always eat this. Always be healthy, you know? Never. And, and so this cognitive closure, people want rules, but like you said, it leaves no. Opportunity for nuance. And I think especially as thought leaders, it’s our responsibility to like lead with ideas Yeah.

But never be closed on them. Right.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

And there’s a way to do it. So for your, for your new friend at the gym who approached you? If I had a chance to connect with him and he was looking for. An alternative. Like I told Jess, I wanted to connect with her. I think she’s really cool. I love that she has this book.

I thought that by giving her that advice, that it would create like a cool connection point. Right. What I would say to that friend is like, maybe you could just tell her what you just told me. Mm-hmm. Like we don’t have to have advice is the barrier. We can say instead like, oh my gosh. Hearing about your experience as a new mom.

It’s reminding me of so many things that I remember. I just wanna help you so much. Yes. That’s so hard. Yes. You’re doing a good job. Like you can just say that. Part. Mm-hmm. And that can be the connection point. Um, you already mentioned you can ask questions. Yeah. Right. You can get to know them more and know what their goals are, ask what they need.

Mm-hmm. Do you wanna keep venting? Do you want me to buy you a coffee? Do you like, what do you need right now? Do you want me to hate your enemies? Yes, you could. You can ask questions. I’m totally

Jess Ekstrom:

putting that one in my back [00:30:00] pocket. Do you want me to hate your enemies? It works with kids too. Yes. Your kids get older.

I love it. Dr. Sarah Globa. You have been amazing. Um, where can people find you? LinkedIn is my favorite place that you are,

Dr. Sarah Glova: but I’m, I’m very on LinkedIn. Uh, I’m on Instagram. And then if you wanna look up the TEDx. Yes, that’d be great. Say the title one

Jess Ekstrom:

more time.

Dr. Sarah Glova:

It’s How to Achieve Your

Jess Ekstrom:

Goals with a Single Page.

Oh my gosh. Amazing. Thank you for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me.

Thanks for listening to Amplify. If you’re a fan of the show, show us some podcast love by giving us a rating and review. This episode is brought to you by Mic Drop Workshop, where you can learn how to become a better speaker. How to land paid speaking gigs. And become a keynote speaker. This episode was edited and produced by Walk West.

I’m Jess Tro reminding you that you deserve the biggest stage, so let’s find out how to get you there. I’ll see you again soon.

Stop Giving Women Toxic Advice | Amplify Podcast

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